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Watchtower take legal action against site that quotes their Quotes!

September 29th, 2005 Leave a comment Go to comments

Jehovah\'s Witnesses sue OffenderThe Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania have initiated legal proceedings against Peter Mosier, who has been displaying “Quotes” from the Jehovah’s Witnesses publication on his website. The law suit seeks a reported $100,000 in damages and a court order to silence the website.

The WatchTower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania have initiated legal proceedings against Peter Mosier, who has been displaying “Quotes” from the Jehovah’s Witnesses publication on his website.

Peter Mosier’s site http://quotes.watchtower.ca has used excerpts from the WatchTower’s own religious literature, which has been printed and distributed free of charge for many years.

The law suit seeks a reported $100,000 in damages and a court order to silence the website.

The site in question carries a notice (in red) that states: “This research and information web site is devoted to collecting and preserving interesting and/or significant quotes from the publications of the Watch Tower Society, without additional commentary or editorial, for the purpose of scholarship and research. The quotes are accurate and verifiable, however this web site is neither affiliated with nor endorsed by Watch Tower Society.”

We understand that Peter Mosier is a former Jehovah’s Witness.

The Jehovah’s Witnesses are often considered a “cult” by many and it is not unusual to see former Jehovah’s Witnesses speaking out against this organization. It is true that they have many traditions and rules that most find strange, and in some cases unacceptable.

Our other site (Profindpages) has written a number of articles on Jehovah’s Witnesses, in particular their ban in Moscow. Covering this topic has brought us into close contact with many of its followers and we have to say that we find most of them very nice people.

However, the objections that most people have of this organization is not so much of the people that support it, but the people that run it (The Watchtower). They have been criticized for putting profit at the top of their list of priorities and there is no question that the company does indeed make a lot of money.

Is Peter Mosier just quoting quotes? Yes and No. The quotes he uses are genuine extracts from quotations found in the Watchtower’s literature, but of course he is selecting the quotes that he feels are the most interesting from his point of view.

Some of the quotations used go way back and a few have been taken from books that are no longer being printed.

One could say that Peter Mosier is “manipulating” the Watchtowers own information, but why are they so “embarrassed”, or perhaps afraid, of having these quotations published? Are the “words” of the past no longer the words of today?

The Watchtower has been accused many times of “changes” in its history and you have to wonder what other areas might be wrong and in need of change?

Many of the rules (for want of a better word) in the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization are quite good. They are against wars and follow many morally correct beliefs. Whilst there are a few “bad apples” in the faith, this is true of many other religions as well.

We tend to agree with many others that the strongest problems Jehovah’s Witnesses face is often created by their own leaders. Whilst no one expects them to change their basic beliefs, there are many areas that could be “updated” to better fit in with an ever changing world. The objections that many have to this religion are usually caused by a lack of understanding of the faith and the people who follow it.

This image could be improved if the organization was perhaps run more like a religion and less like a business? If the Watchtower are “embarrassed” about quotes from their own literature being published (in whatever form), perhaps there is something wrong with the quotations in the first place? No one is perfect in this world (certainly not humans) and there is no disgrace in admitting to errors. Surely, Jehovah’s Witnesses will not think less of the Watchtower if they accept that some older literature was less than correct and change it, some would probably see this as an act of strength not weakness. Do they think the organization will crumble if they admit to being human?

Perhaps the best option would be to correct the areas that create criticism, rather than try to gag those that are critical. This tactic is not so different to the way the Soviet Union was run. Censoring people’s views usually indicates there is something to hide!

Our article is not meant as an attack on those that belong to this faith, but we are concerned that the large number of decent, honest and trusting members involved are given the respect they have earnt with their loyalty.

Source

Categories: Watchtower & Money
  1. skeeter
    November 14th, 2005 at 04:32 | #1

    I suggest you read up on “fair use” and “free speech” laws. It’s perfectly legal to quote small amounts, and to criticize the original writers. The Watchtower Society even uses fair use and free speech whenever it quotes other copyrighted material, and uses it in the Watchtower & other books. Likewise, people who criticize the Watchtower have a free speech right to do so, and even have the right to quote directly from the Society’s literature (provided it is not more than a few sentences, 50 words, no more than is necessary to get the writer’s point across, etc). If you don’t think so, call Bethel’s legal department.

  2. skeeter
    November 14th, 2005 at 04:27 | #2

    I suggest you read up on “fair use/copyright” and “free speech” laws. It’s perfectly legal to quote small amounts, and even to use those quotes in order to criticize the original writers. The Watchtower Society even uses “fair use” and “free speech” whenever it quotes other copyrighted material, and uses it in the Watchtower & other books. However, one is NEVER allowed to misquote a writer or speaker. For example, if I said “Jehovah’s Witnesses never attend church on Friday night at 3:00 a.m.”…you could not quote me as saying “Jevovah’s Witnesses never attend church.” Why not? That would be misleading and change my entire meaning.

    Once you’ve read up on “fair use” and “free speech” you should find out that people who criticize the Watchtower have a free speech right to do so, and even have the right to quote directly from the Society’s literature (provided it is not more than a few sentences, 50 words, no more than is necessary to get the writer’s point across, etc). If you don’t think so, call Bethel’s legal department or your nearest law school.

  3. skeeter
    November 14th, 2005 at 04:14 | #3

    Does Canada have a “fair use” copyright law? In the US, anyone can quote copyrighted material and even has the right to criticize the original writing. The key is that only a portion, say a sentence or two or three, is taken from each article or for each point. (One can not copy an entire book or article to make a point). If this lawsuit was in the US, I’d think that the website owner has a valid counterclaim against the Watchtower for impeding on his/her free speech rights. US enjoys a long history of “market place” of exchange of ideas. If the Watchtower cares enough about a subject to print it and distribute it, then EVERYONE in the US has a right to quote it and criticize it, provided it’s within “fair use” guidelines. While the Society has freedom of religion protection, people who criticize the JW’s have free speech rights too!

    But, what is really unfathomable, is …. isn’t all the JW material freely given away to the public? The Society may direct its followers to ask for a donation, but the Society does not “sell” or enter into the marketplace for their product. (If they did, sales tax would be due in many states). Since each magazine has zero commercial value, the Society has no damages to be calculated.

    In short, this sounds like the Society in Canada is harassing this website owner. Take the Society to court, argue free speech and fair use of copyrighted materials…counter sue for a million dollars.

    Most of all, get an attorney in Canada.

  4. Anonymous
    November 9th, 2005 at 00:18 | #4

    Why are they afraid of what they published in the past?

    I well remembering a family selling their home to save lives in the “Short time remaining” I will never forget the KM praising ones for doing this. I remember four couples at the assembly telling of selling their homes & business to pioneer in the shot time remaining. They were all praised and told that what they were doing was “Very Fitting in this short time remaining. The year 1975 was promoted by the society.

    Gave up collage to become a JW in 1973. In 1974 I gave up a wonderful “worldly” man to get baptized before the fall of 1975.

    I never knew while a JW that 1925 was also promoted as the end, nor that in 1941 the “Children” book came out stating that now was not the time to have children. A child born in 1942 would be 63 years old now.

    All the Quote site is doing is telling the “Truth”

    birdie

  5. November 8th, 2005 at 18:47 | #5

    Hi folks,
    Please realise that it is not membership or non-membership of any organisation/religion which pleases God, but rather as you know … learning how to love God and our neighbour and putting it into practice at every opportunity. This is enough to keep us occupied.
    Think of it… by highlighting the Organisation of Jehovah’s witnesses either negatively or positively you are still advertising them… and “all publicity is good publicity” in that it makes people think that something is important enough to think or talk or learn about.
    If a person is on fire… which is the best?
    To spend time convincing them they are on fire
    or to Put out the fire and let them notice then for themselves…
    I.e.
    If we spend our time teaching people about Jesus and his father and his Holy spirit and how to form a relationship with them then they will eventually see what is bad for themselves.

  6. Evariste
    November 7th, 2005 at 17:26 | #6

    Dear Anonymous,
    Quoting Matt. 7:13,14 I presume you feel that you (and of course JWs) are on the cramped road leading off into life.
    I am curious as to how do you know it refers to you. I am not a JW and yet I have not only a firm belief but personal evidences that I am on that same road. And, I am sure, there are many others like me.
    So, my question is how do we know since the path I have chosen to serve God is totally different than yours? Could you ‘prove’ to me that God meant JWs when he referred to the ‘few’ who would be going through the narrow gate and taking the cramped road?
    I am looking forward to your answer.
    Evariste

  7. Andrew Milner
    November 1st, 2005 at 18:22 | #7

    I fail to see how Jehovah’s Witnesses can be “God’s chosen people” when at the time they were alledgedly selected by Jehovah to be his voice on earth, the organisation was still teaching their belief that the the great pyramid in Egypt was

    “The Corroborative Testimony of God’s Stone Witness and Prophet” – Thy Kingdom Come – 1915 edition page 309 – International Bible Students Association – Pastor Russell

    The front cover of this publication uses a picture of the Egyptian Trinity Sun-Disk, now considered a pagan emblem by the organisation.

    Do you think Jehovah would have chosen this group of people to represent them?

  8. Anonymous
    October 26th, 2005 at 04:07 | #8

    Phil said -
    just as many of us ex-jehovah’s Witnesses’s have, and amongst whom of which many are now able to enjoy a fuller life free from the influence of a bunch of old men in Brooklyn.

    I found a Similar pattern of thinking in the Book of Numbers.

    Number 16:12-14

    12 Later Moses sent to call Da´than and A·bi´ram the sons of E·li´ab, but they said: “We are not going to come up! 13 Is it so little a thing that you have brought us up out of a land flowing with milk and honey to put us to death in the wilderness, that you should also try to play the prince over us to the limit? 14 As it is, you have not brought us into any land flowing with milk and honey, that you may give us an inheritance of field and vineyard. Is it the eyes of those men that you want to bore out? We are not going to come up!”

    Some good advice for everyone:

    Matt 7:13,14
    “Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

  9. Phil
    October 24th, 2005 at 20:45 | #9

    Despite Anonymous’s comments about the strength of Jehovah’s people, his/her comments are, nevertheless, indicative of his/hers doubts about this organisation; why read anything else (this website?) other than the Awake and Watchtower if one is convinced that one has the truth? Keep probing Anonymous, you may well one day find the truth, just as many of us ex-jehovah’s Witnesses’s have, and amongst whom of which many are now able to enjoy a fuller life free from the influence of a bunch of old men in Brooklyn.

    Excellent articles in this website, I hope more doubting Witnesses read the articles here.

    Phil

  10. Anonymous
    October 24th, 2005 at 19:14 | #10

    No one will stop and shut down Jehovah’s People, nor stop their preaching. All efforts will fail. Not even a Billion website against them will stop the God’s chosen people.

  11. Anonymous
    October 24th, 2005 at 18:59 | #11

    Why do people love to read literature from a orgazation that they Totally dissagree with and call names?

    Jehovah’s Witnesses do their best to follow the Bible, Jehovah’s people in the Bible have to be refined. All of Jehovah’s servants had to be corrected to a certain degree in the Bible, why should it be different today, We are further from perfection then back then.

    FRI – How much money does it take to print Millions of Magazines and Books, CD, and Video’s and mantain the equipment to do so in branch offices throughout the world?

    also the lights, heating & cooling, pumbling, insurance, permits etc. How much money would you need?

    as far as breaking copyright laws. Take that up with your government. It’s the Law.

  12. FRI
    October 24th, 2005 at 15:07 | #12

    Mike, here is the cost of producing 1,000 copies of the colored magazines (watchtower & awake) as of 2001.

    Plate cost: 0.14 cents
    Production cost: 3.27
    Ink cost: 0.34 cents
    Paper cost: 37.44
    Subtotal: 41.19
    Plus waste % 4.3 1.77
    TOTAL: $42.94

    If my math is right as of 2001 the magazine will cost 4.2 cents to produce. You present it as free, however as soon as a person accepts it you ask for a donation. In my older days going back to 2001 I had never seen anyone contributing less than .50 cents. Just imagine how much money you collect from those magazines. Where they are supposed to be free of charge. As of the year 2001 the WT was making between $900,000.00 to a Million dollars in profit per year for the Watchtower magazine alone. I had a very good friend (bethelite, presiding overseer) whom I spent vacations with that gave me a copy of the figures. They do those figures (Letterpress vs Harris on 1 shift) to compare which one is the cheaper.

    If in fact the magazines are supposed to be free, you should give them as such. If people want to contribute you should at least let them know the cost so as not to rob them.

  13. David
    October 24th, 2005 at 13:32 | #13

    Their can be many reasons someone would want to research the JW’s without becoming a JW. In my own experience my ex-wife starting taking our child to studies, KH and assemblies without my knowledge. As his father and certainly as his primary custodial parent I have the right to research the history of this group without becoming a witness myself.

    I could present myself as interested in becoming a witness to gain this information but that would be deceitful. I had a meeting with my ex and two elders after I found out what was going on. I found one to be antagonistic and very defensive. He would answer a question with a question and not give straight answers. He was beligerent and loud as if this was going to make me hear him better. The other was younger and seemed quite submissive to the older. As such, any request from me to review past issues in their library was not going to be honored.

    I don’t believe I am the only one who has this scenario in their life. Their are many divorced parents in the same situation and the non-JW parent would be entitled to research the past of the WTBTS just as they would the history of any school or doctor they were considering taking their child to.

    BTW, I don’t think anyone can truly say that the JW’s have “a clearer understanding to certain teaching”. Clearer to whom and what teachings.

    Would you (or anyone reading this post) please answer this question, if the the WTBTS claims to be Jehovah’s organization, mouthpiece or deliverer of his word, do you think they have the right to copyright the material in their periodicals?

    Thank you

  14. fri
    October 24th, 2005 at 13:06 | #14

    To “bill anonymous”, you do not have to become an elder to read the elders manual; it is on line for whomever wants to read it. As you know JW claim to be the true religion, backed by Jehovah God and the Angels. That being the case why so many changes in so many issues? Flip flops would be the correct word

    Is that possible that every time God communicate with the so-called “anointed” they do not get it and therefore give you the wrong light? How many times has there been a change in issues? Would it come from God, would there be so many mistakes? Sorry to disappoint you but the light was cut off a long time ago, and many people question if in fact you ever had electricity!

    Looking at old literature is very important as it exposes the lies and craziness you have been printing for the last 200 years.

    I think it very funny when you say “””Become a Jehovah’s Witness if anyone wants to read all of their old magazines. If you want to read the Elders Book, then reach out to be a Elder””” Is that new approach to make new converts??
    The older publications are no longer available for the witnesses. We were clearly told to get rid of publications that were over 2 years old. If one needs to make research you is told to do it in the CD ROM. You should know very well that if you compare the articles in the CD ROM the wording is not the same as in the watchtowers.
    You come in here try to defend them, however you are doing more damage to the religion by defending the nitwits.

  15. Anonymous
    October 24th, 2005 at 05:30 | #15

    Become a Jehovah’s Witness if anyone wants to read all of their old magazines. If you want to read the Elders Book, then reach out to be a Elder.

    Their beliefs and practices are already available to the public.

    True the J.W’s have a clearer understanding on certain teaching and have adjusted their view, but that’s easy to find out.

    If someone doesn’t want to be a J.W but still wants to Read all their magazines from the past 50 years. What’s the point?

  16. David
    October 23rd, 2005 at 08:53 | #16

    If the WTBTS would make all of the issues of the magazine available to anyone who desired to read it, then the idea of just reading the magazine would be great. However, I am not aware of any public library or other place that has the Watchtower or Awake magazines available. If you are aware of a place that a person can research the literary works of the WTBTS without having to go to a Kingdom Hall, Bethel or other WTBTS owned building, let the rest of us know.

    Funny thing is, I have read some of the magazines and it seems that the WTBTS has quite a habit of quoting others. I don’t think it would take much to find a few of their quotes that are copyrighted material. Furthermore, I distinctly remember an article in one of their magazines about Pope Bonaface and problems with his papacy. This article obviously had no other intention than to slam or “embarass” the Catholic church. Isn’t that one of the claims the WTBTS is making about Pete Mosier? It appears as if the WTBTS has a ” Do as I say, not as I do” attitude.

    By the way, breaking the law is not taking responsibility for your actions. Admitting to breaking the law and accepting the consequences is taking responsibilty. I believe this is what you were trying to say. Anyway, it has yet to be determined whether or not any copyright laws have been violated.

  17. Anonymous
    October 23rd, 2005 at 06:52 | #17

    The Law is the Law. If you break the Law, It’s called taking responsibility for your actions.

    Why not, Just tell people to go read the WT and Awake magazines, why quote the same information if that’s truly the case?

    Why would quotes.watchtower.ca waste time quoting the Watchtower if that’s all he’s doing? Just go read the Magazine.

  18. David
    October 20th, 2005 at 21:48 | #18

    One thing I don’t understand. If the WTBTS says they are distributing Jehovah’s word by being God’s mouthpiece or whatever, what gives them the right to copyright the material in the first place. Is there someplace I can go to in order to view the power of attorney documents giving the WTBTS all rights to His word?

    As a JW one is expected to go forth and deliver God’s word. However, this applies to everyone and not just JWs. Show me in the scriptures where it says that only JWs are to do this. Since the WTBTS claims they are directed by Jehovah then it is safe to expect that anything in their literature is an extension of the word of Jehovah.

    This may be simplistic but isn’t all that Pete Mosier has done is to provide God’s word (as professed by the WTBTS)?

    It seems they want their cake and to eat it also. If it is God’s word then it is for everyone no matter what format it is delivered and the right to copyright that material does not belong to the WTBTS. As such, Pete Mosier did nothing wrong. If they want to copyright the material as their own then they must have to make the statement that the material contained within their publications is their own interpretation of the scriptures and provide credentials to qualify the writers and/or interpreters.

    In my opinion the lawsuit is ridiculous. Even in my own life I consider myself responsible for what I say or write. However, I’m not going to sue someone for repeating it. It’s called taking responsibility for your actions.

  19. Valderhaug
    October 19th, 2005 at 21:47 | #19

    kj Says: October 19th, 2005 at 1:24 am – First of all this isn’t a matter of covering tracks, but a matter of protecting copyrighted material. Yes Jehovah’s Witnesses do distribute this material freely. However it is still under copyright laws, and has every right to be upheld.

    ******Er, kj, the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society (WTBTS) does cover its tracks. One way they’ve certainly done this is by changing what has been previously published. specifically, the WTBTS edits out embarassing comments made by thet. Surely, that qualifies as “covering tracks”, or, doesn’t it? There’s a bit of irony in the WTBTS enforcing copyright laws, isn’t it? These are God’s very words, right? Why would the WTBTS have it both ways??

    Furthermore, the Jehovah’s Witnesses have the right to defend their beliefs when they are under attack. True these quotes may be from older, official publications. However, things change. They are comprised of imperfect individuals, and are bound to make mistakes. Taking these older quotations out of context can completely change the meaning, and can bring bad light on the information.

    *****Point of correction: the quotes are not out of context; unless, of course, you wish to rewrite the the context.

    They are clearly requesting due compensation both for the using these publications information out of context for his own personal agenda, and for the breaking of copyright laws on the material.

    ***** Okay; the WTBTS can hire as many fancy lawyers as they want. I understand the lawyers in the Vicki Boer case got 160,000 dollars (not sure whether Cannadian or US dollars). Just remember that money to pay those lawyers comes from the donations to the so-called “World Wide Work”, a common purse where funds for everything, including donations for Katrina victims, say, are pooled. May be you can sleep easy at night with the thought that part of your donated money is being used to prosecure a case against the innocent Vicki Boer who was abused by a JW family member, and further abused by the implementation of a brutal JW policy by JW elders, or in prosecuting a case against a man who’s quoting the WTBTS’s words; me, I can’t.

  20. October 19th, 2005 at 02:47 | #20

    THANKYOU ALL FOR ALL YOUR COMMENTS. I THOUGHT IT IS STRANGE TO HEAR ANYONE MAKING COMMENTS IN SUPPORT OF THE BIGGEST CULT IN THE WORLD. SOME EVEN SAID THEY ATTENDED MEETINGS AT KINGDOM HALLS. EVIDENTLY THEY DO NOT KNOW THAT THE CULT CONSIDERS ANYONE WHO TALKS TO ANYONE THAT DOES NOT AGREE WITH THEM ARE APOSTATES. THEY ARE RIGHT TO SAY THAT, BECAUSE THOSE PEOPLE ARE APOSTATIZING AGAINST THE GREAT W.T.B.T.S. THEY IN NO WAY ARE APOSTATES AGAINST JEHOVAH. WHEN EVER YOU FIND AN ORGANIZATION THAT TELLS THE RANK AND FILE THAT “IF YOU DO NOT DO WHAT WE SAY, JEHOVAH IS GOING TO KILL YOU” YOU HAVE A BIG CULT. THEY NOT ONLY SAY THAT, BUT MANY OTHER RESTRICTIONS ARE PUT FORTH. THEY HAVE FLIP-FLOPPED ON SO MANY THINGS IT IS HARD TO KEEP UP WITH THEM. IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION, THEY SAY,” GO TO A W.T. AND ON PAGE SO AND SO, PARAGRAPH SO AND SO, AND YOU WILL FIND YOUR ANSWER”. THEY SAY THEY NEVER GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN, AND BY THAT THEY MEAN, WHAT IS WRITTEN IN THE WATCHTOWER. WHERE DO THOSE ARTICLES IN THEIR MAGAZINES, COME FROM? YEAR AFTER YEAR THEY COME OUT OF THE HEADS OF WHAT THEY CALL THE “GOVERNING” BODY. SO IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW AN ORGANIZATION THAT IS TOTALY RUN BY MEN, GO AT IT”?

  21. fri
    October 19th, 2005 at 01:42 | #21

    KJ, all along the JW have claimed to be the mouthpiece for Jehovah and backed by angels and still you get the wrong information! How can that be? Sadly enough, the truth you teach today will be a lie tomorrow.
    You are not trying to defend your beliefs, you are just embarrassed of all the lies that came, comes, will come from the Org.

    As for distributing the material free, well the distribution is free but the magazines are not. It was done when the government tried to put a tax on in. Magazines are only free when you give them away without charging for them. Once you say to the person: “would you like to contribute to the world wide work” after giving the magazine, you are in fact selling it. You are you trying to fool, yourself? I was a JW for many years, therefore that wont stick with me.

  22. jh
    October 19th, 2005 at 01:37 | #22

    When has it been announced to throw out the older publications? In contrast, it is actually encouraged to distribute this literature noting that old news is still good news. True some things have changed, but the overall message still remains the same. During visit’s from our Circuit Overseers over the past several years, we have been encouraged to bring our older literature and use it in the special week of service.

    If there is a mention of this in an article (KM, WT, etc..) please bring this to our attention, as many current Jehovah’s Witnesses clearly weren’t made aware of this.

  23. kj
    October 19th, 2005 at 01:24 | #23

    First of all this isn’t a matter of covering tracks, but a matter of protecting copyrighted material. Yes Jehovah’s Witnesses do distribute this material freely. However it is still under copyright laws, and has every right to be upheld.

    Furthermore, the Jehovah’s Witnesses have the right to defend their beliefs when they are under attack. True these quotes may be from older, official publications. However, things change. They are comprised of imperfect individuals, and are bound to make mistakes. Taking these older quotations out of context can completely change the meaning, and can bring bad light on the information.

    They are clearly requesting due compensation both for the using these publications information out of context for his own personal agenda, and for the breaking of copyright laws on the material.

  24. Joni Mueller
    October 18th, 2005 at 03:59 | #24

    There’s a bigger reason for throwing away those old books chock full of so-called “Old Light.”

    It’s no fun looking back on past publications and realizing you got it all wrong. I was a JW back in the mid-1970s. They scared the every loving crap out of my 16 year old head. Stories about the end of the world, which was predicted to happen in 1975. Well, we’re all still here. It would be interesting indeed to get one’s paws on a circa 1974-75 Watchtower.

    Oh, and note the use of the word “was”.

  25. Un mentioned
    October 18th, 2005 at 01:33 | #25

    Hi, i must be in ther wrong web site buecause if you guys say to be JW you guys sure have been missing o lot of info at meeting they do not encurege us to throw away litiure but to use it it dose not matter how old it is the information is still help ful for us now in days.
    SO if you people don’t have anything eles to do then to make up stuff i would really consider you guys trying a diffrent hobbie!

  26. Icebuddy
    October 17th, 2005 at 20:47 | #26

    One thing I noticed about this article was

    Surely, Jehovah’s Witnesses will not think less of the Watchtower if they accept that some older literature was less than correct and change it, some would probably see this as an act of strength not weakness. Do they think the organization will crumble if they admit to being human?

    My personal experiences with the JW people is that the organization is more or less the mouth piece of Jehovah. Therefore to admit being “Human” would mean the messages are coming from “Humans” and not “Jehovah”. This would mean that the organization is lead by Humans making errors instead of the clear word of God. So I find it no surprise that the Wtbs will not admit to human errors.

    Other than that, I hope that the love of Jesus shines upon us all.

  27. Valderhaug
    October 15th, 2005 at 09:03 | #27

    I don’t exaclty know if there is documented evidence that the Watchtower Bible & Tract Soceiety (WTBTS) has asked Witnesses to destroy old literature, but the signals they send strongly suggest that rank-and-file Witnesses are not encouraged to consult old literature.

    The other day, an elder in a congreagtion I was visiting commented from the platform that “everything the Society said about 1914 came true; everything; that must have been from God himself”. An extraordinary claim. I walked up to him after his talk and requested him to produce any documented evidence that anything (anything!) the organisation now know as the WTBTS said before 1914 came true. He said he’ll get back; may be he’ll do it tomorrow, or later today. This Kingdom Hall (KH) has a rich library, and I’ve referred him to books in the library. Now, is it curious or not that all their old books are now hidden from view at the same KH? A brother has reported that the decision to “keep the books away” was not made at the lcoal KH. What about that?

    Beyond instructions to destroy old books, it is clear that the WTBTS is very much into revisionism. The fine print in the CD-ROM, for example, shows you may not expect to find the same material in the CD-ROM version of hardcopy, paper editions; and to the extent that the WTBTS has actually changed words in re-published editions of books and magazines (including the Bound Volumes) without indicating that they have, one must wonder.

  28. Kitty_Pride
    October 15th, 2005 at 04:16 | #28

    Jean,
    I Have To Say I Don’t Know About The Watchtower ™ Requesting Literature Destroyed From Only 2 Years Back.
    Still I Was Present At The Meeting A Few Years Back When It Was Announced To Remove And Throw Away Older Books And Magazines From The Kingdom Hall Libraries.
    This Was Not Secret If You Took Note To The Announcement. It Might Not Have Seemed Odd To Anyone Who Still Believed In The Old Light/New Light Teaching.

    It Struck A Cord With Me Though Because I Always Enjoyed Reading The Old Publications. Some Of The Old Timers Would Even Give Me Their X-Tra Copies Of Much Older Literature Back Into The 30’s. Maybe Even Further.

    Some Kingdom Halls In The U.S.A. Had Literature Way Back To The Beginning Due To Old Timers Donating It.

    I Remember During The Book Study One Time They Were Discussing An Older Publication And Saying It Was No Longer In Print. I Enquired As To Why That Would Be So And I Was Informed Because It Was Old Light And Irrelevant. I Thought How Much I’d Like To Read That Book And How It Must Still Have Spiritual Benefits For Today. The Bible Is Very Old Dictated By God To Men And It Is Still Relevant. Why Wouldn’t This Book Be Of Any Use?

    It Is Very Fishy To Not Want The Brothers And Sisters To Read Old Light Much Less The Public. The Watchtower Claims To Be God’s Channel Here On The Earth.
    What Could They Be Hiding?

    Truthfully They Should Put It All On A CD ROM And Get It Over With. Why Avoid The Inevitable? One day All If Not Most Jehovah’s Witnesses Will Have Read At Least Quotes Site.

    As For Blood.
    The Watchtower™ Has Made Many Medical Mandates Other Then No Blood That They Have Let Go Of Later. Imagine Even Children Have Been Killed By The Arrogant Ignorance Of The Watchtower Corporation™.

    Once Vaccinations Were Forbidden By The Watchtower™ And Children Died. Just Look At This Modern Day Case In Minnesota With The Amish Who Forbad Vaccinations By Divine Mandate. They Have Four Cases In Children Right Now.
    http://www.medpagetoday.com/PublicHealthPolicy/PublicHealth/tb/1935

    When You Read U.S.A. History About The Epidemics We Had! Can You Imagine How Many Jehovah’s Witness Children Suffered? Their Parents Thought They Were Serving Jehovah. Can You Imagine When The Dogmatic Mandate Was Lifted And The Poor Parents Who Lost Their Children To Death Now Had To Face They Allowed Their Child To Die For Nothing? How Horrifying!!
    Same Thing For Families Who Members Needed Organ Transplants Or Fractions.
    The Death By Dogmatic Mandate Is Staggering!!

    Since The Watchtower Corporation™ Was Wrong About So Many Medical Opinions Why Blindly Believe And Follow Them To The Loss Of Your Life….Which Is A Gift From God. The Only Fact In All Their Medical Dogmatic Bumbling Is That Our Lives Are Gifts From God And Should Not Be Thrown Away At The Opinion Of Men Who Run A Religious Publishing Company.
    Here Is A List Of Much Of The “Medical Light” That Came From The Self Appointed “Slave Class” And Major Share Holders In The Watchtower Corporation™.

    Medical & Science

    Aluminum

    Antimatter

    Appendicitis

    Blood

    Blood Guilt

    Blood in Bulgaria

    Cancer Cure

    Carnivore

    Drugs

    Gravitation and Electric Energy

    Heart: Site of Emotions

    Medical Miscellaneous

    Organ Transplant

    Osteopathy

    Physiognomy, Phrenology

    Psychiatry

    Radium

    Space Travel

    Vaccination & Germ Theory

    Zone Therapy (Reflexology)
    http://quotes.watchtower.ca/admin-site-map.htm#medical

    Please, Check This Out Before You Make Life Decisions For Yourself As Well As Your Family…..Your Little Ones. Do Not Listen To The Teachings Of Men But, Listen To That Still Soft Voice That Whispers To You From Our Grand Creator’s Holy Spirit.

    Many Blessings,
    Kitty Pride

    Kata Pneuma

  29. fri
    October 14th, 2005 at 22:43 | #29

    Jean, I find it quiet amusing when people like you “scientist” (so you claim) can come with words such as “liturature” “informaton” “dieseses” “broucher” “staments” just to name a few. If I am not mistaken you made 28 errors in your posting.
    We are just so proud of today’s scientists. From your way of thinking, you cannot be a rocket scientist. May I ask what kind of scientist are you? Did you get your diploma at the Kingdom Hall?

  30. jean
    October 14th, 2005 at 13:49 | #30

    but they dont want to get rid of publications that is the point

  31. jean
    October 14th, 2005 at 13:36 | #31

    also if its not so bad then why dont you ask them their teachings also i think youl find that youre only playing with words
    if you guve me enough evidence i may reconsider but at the moment there is none at all

  32. jean
    October 14th, 2005 at 13:33 | #32

    are you sure they want to destroy liturature. I would just like to know where you get all this informaton from. because i believe that if you take someone elses opinion then you havent got one of youre own. wouldnt it be good to check youre data by asking a jehovahs witness but if this is so then i am not quite sure what to belive.
    and i was taught about the signs of the times are they not happening. i am quite sure that earthquakes and hurricanes are getting stronger and killing more. i am really confused after reading this.
    I think that if you want to know anything you should ask the peson who is saying these things (THe jehovah wittnesses. where is youre evidence of these things they have the evidence in the earthquakes and in the dead people.
    Also i have read the blood broucher myself and i know for a fact that blood causes over a thousand dieseses i am a scientist i know that some of these staments are not true and i am quite sure that they are not destroying any books over two years old infact i no for sure that they have a disk which is up to about 50 years of publications
    I would welcome any opinions at

  33. Evariste
    October 12th, 2005 at 15:12 | #33

    Proclaimer,

    Please check out the following link:
    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/98053/1.ashx
    I would like to read your comments about what it reveals.

    Thank you

  34. fri
    October 12th, 2005 at 02:55 | #34

    Proclaimer,
    Please go to http://www.watchtowernews.org/index.html and click on “Listen to WT response on Katrina efforts (mp3) (posted 9/19/2005) than come and tell us what you think of the actual recording.

  35. fri
    October 12th, 2005 at 02:40 | #35

    Proclaimer,
    If you are a JW your mind is being controlled. Mind-control is most effective when people think they are exercising free will, but if the person is programmed to act as a self-regulator, then the control is really successful. Most Witnesses will argue that they exercise free choice, but if I offer you a choice from a selection, strictly limited by me, is that really a choice? Picture yourself in an airplane and at meal time the steward will come and ask you “Chicken or beef?” Is that really a choice? NO, it is an illusion of free choice and it is effective because you are led to believe that your can choose. Witnesses have their choices very limited in many areas, but still they think they have a choice when in fact choices are made for them. Armies control people. Basic training reprograms the soldier’s mind to do the will of the Army under special conditions, but in civilian life, the recruit is allowed freedom of expression and choice (JW do not outside the Kingdom Hall have free choice). Children are controlled by parents (or they used to be!), but this is temporary and the child breaks free in adolescence to stand alone, and parents are happy to see their children grow to maturity and become INDEPENDENT of their necessary control. Unfortunately witnesses will never have this freedom; choices are always made for them, but most of them never realize this. Let us suppose that your mind is controlled. Would you know it? How could you? Surely the whole point of mind-control is that the person being controlled is UNaware of it. Does a puppet know he is being controlled? NO! Still he moves happily. You are taught that Satan the Devil is the ruler of this world and everything, everyone on this planet, except Jehovah’s Witnesses, is under his control. The Witnesses attend meetings three times each week plus perhaps, 20 minutes before and after each gathering. During that time, the ideas and language of Jehovah’s Witnesses are continually reiterated. Witnesses rely upon the Writing Committee of the “faithful slave” to research for them. This is encouraged by the leadership. Regarding personal study, The Watchtower said, “do some spiritual digging in order to begin getting the very knowledge of Jehovah’s heavenly organization” (w15/6 98) where is this “digging” to be done? In the Bible? NO. But the Watchtower Index.
    If you ever want to memorize something, sing it. It is a very effective way to learn and remember written material. One note or phrase can help you recall a whole song that you have not sung for years. (”Baa, baa, black sheep, have you…..”) All of the 225 songs used in Witness meetings are written by Jehovah’s Witnesses to avoid the influence of so called “false religion” in the hymns of the Christian church (this does not prevent Witness writers “borrowing” musical phrases and themes). Each week at Witness meetings, six songs in total are sung and Witnesses are “encouraged” to sing these as part of their worship and to listen to the “up-building” music of Kingdom Melodies at other times. When listening to these tapes, the words of the songs inevitably come to mind. Music is a very powerful influence as the Society itself is aware – it discourages listening to popular “worldly” music. Does the leadership control other information? Yes, most effectively. It never actually forbids the reading of any material, but “advises”, “encourages”, “reasons with”, the faithful Witness to avoid material which, as they say “is harmful to you. If, in research on the internet, you find facts at odds with what you have been taught, will you explain these away by saying that they are lies created to mislead you?
    How do you view people who are not Witnesses? Do you believe they are immoral and dishonest? Do you disbelieve the stories about Jehovah’s Witnesses who have committed fraud, child abuse, rape and other crimes? Do you think that they were never “proper” Jehovah’s Witnesses? Do you try to convince yourself that they were “never really in the truth”? The facts show that some active and approved Witnesses are dishonest, yet you still have contact with them. Suppose that you dare to criticize something connected with “Jehovah’s organization” – what will happen? Won’t other Witnesses quickly withdraw from you because “you are discouraging”? “Read God’s Word the Holy Bible Daily”. Witnesses are encouraged to study the Bible, but they are told that they cannot understand it unless it is explained to them. And by whom? By the “faithful and discreet slave” composed of about 5, 000 spirit-anointed” men and women world-wide, but represented by only a dozen men in Brooklyn. If they are the faithful and discrete slave how come the instructions only come from the 12 or 13????
    At the end of every assembly, a speaker from the national headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses usually gives an inspiring talk relating how “Jehovah has blessed his people in xyz country”- usually involving b numerical increases and experiences in various lands. These talks, and others on assembly programmers, are often punctuated by enthusiastic “spontaneous applause” from a claque, cued by expressions such as “Isn’t that something we are all very happy about Brothers?” (Applause) Have you been told that the New World Translation is the best of all Bible translations? Do you believe that only Jehovah’s Witnesses, as a special group of people, were chosen by God, to “preach the good news before the end comes”? Although the Bible warns Christians not to judge others since we are all sinners, Jehovah’s Witnesses do this all the time. It is reasoned that, although we cannot judge the inner man, we can know his “heart condition” (spirituality) by his words and actions – “out of the heart’s abundance the mouth speaks”. That is enough for Jehovah’s Witnesses. Those who do not attend all meetings are “weak” or uncommitted unless they have exceptional reasons. Even in the case of severe disability, every effort is made to attend meetings and assemblies – in wheelchairs or on beds and stretchers if necessary.
    If a man works shifts, he will be encouraged to find other employment and if he wishes to gain a position as elder, he really must attend the Kingdom Hall regularly. Tales are told of Witnesses traversing crocodile-infested rivers or terrain frequented by dangerous animals to attend meetings, while The Watchtower encourages swapping of unpopular shifts with fellow-employees so that Witnesses do not miss meetings. And a woman “paid a fellow-worker to cover her shift so that she could be free to attend these important meetings” (w1/9 98) Are Jehovah’s Witnesses “brainwashed”? Yes, definitely.
    Witness converts soon learn that they should answer “question and answer” meeting parts “in their own words”. This means that they should not read answers verbatim from the paragraphs of The Watchtower or study book being used. Instead they should rephrase their answers. This does not mean that they will answer in their own words because they will still conform to the well-understood jargon phrases of Jehovah’s Witnesses e.g. “Babylon the Great” which is the “world empire of false religion” instead of “all religion in this world which does not worship Jehovah through his organization and, according to the Society, has pagan origins from ancient Babylon If you stay in the organization,.

    The longer you vacillate, the more difficult it is to leave. If you do not act soon, you will slip back into inertia and, before long, you will be passively swallowing all the spiritual junk “food” again, as fast as the “faithful steward” can serve it. The Watchtower claims to be the bridge between God and mankind but unfortunately the only bridge they have is Brooklyn Bridge.

  36. Frank Richier
    October 12th, 2005 at 00:06 | #36

    Proclaimer, Are all Pagan rituals wrong? What about all the brothers and sisters who wear there wedding rings? Here is the quote from “The watchtower” “We, of course, recognize that rings are used extensively in many pagan rituals.”*** Watchtower 1952 June 15 pp.361-2 The Marriage Ceremony *** “Even if it were a fact that pagans first used wedding rings, would that rule such out for Christians? Not necessarily. Many of today’s articles of clothing and aspects of life originated in pagan lands. The present time divisions of hours, minutes and seconds are based on an early Babylonian system. Yet, there is no objection to a Christian’s using these time divisions, for one’s doing so does not involve carrying on false religious practices.”
    *** Watchtower 1972 January 15 p.63 Questions from Readers
    I believe this is current light, this Pagan ritual has not seen the light go out on it yet. …These quotes are from the afforementioned site…

  37. Akhessa
    October 11th, 2005 at 22:14 | #37

    Dear Proclaimer:

    Your example of the math student is a good try but unfortunately it does not back up your case at all. Rather, it does exactly the opposite, that is, it proves what everyone else is trying to say.

    The fact is that even a straight A student is still a student and still ‘learning’ and therefore liable to make mistakes. But how about the professor? Does he make mistakes? Is he allowed to make mistakes? You might answer that he also is human and therefore infallible. True, but let us accept the fact that if he is teaching a subject, this means that he is an ‘expert’ in that subject and the likelihood of him making a serious mistake such as enunciating/explaining a theorem or rule wrongly that would eventually force him to ‘retract’ on what he has taught is, improbable. So, at best I would have compared the WTS to the math teacher and not to the student but even then, the math teacher comes ahead as he is usually an expert in what he teaches and doesn’t have to ’scrap’ previous years’ teachings.

    The biggest problem with the WTS (or its governing body) is that it claims to be ‘God’s organization on earth’ based on flimzy ‘facts’ such the ones you mention, that is that they are spreading useful information at the right time. First, let me mention to you that the ‘useful’ information they are spreading is also available from other sources which unfortunately you would have no clue it existed since you are more or less prevented to read anything but the WTS literature. Second, let me ask you a question:
    If the WTS was indeed God’s organization on earth (an organization that God would have chosen) do you think that God would play tricks with them – maybe to “test” them, as they would so humbly say – by giving them the wrong information (over and over) before He finally decided that it was time to give them the right one? Do you believe that God would spend all this energy with a handful of ‘his witnesses’? Do you also believe that He would go ahead and kill the rest of his children – basically 99.99% of humanity – just because they did not listen to “his message”? In view of that how can we keep on seeing him as the God of Love? What was the point of sending ‘his only begotten Son’?

    Have you ever wondered what tangible proof the WTS has to claim that it is ‘God’s organization on earth’? If the governing body were truly connected to the Divine, would they make such repeated mistakes? Would they worry about ‘quotes’ of their defunct predictions and rules being made public on the Internet? Would they not rather adopt Jesus’ attitude, i.e. “Forgive them Father for they know not what they are doing” (Luke 23:34)?

    I have left the organization over 30 yeas ago. During these years I have been actively searching and in the process I have encountered many remarkable persons and organizations whom I would qualify as being ‘godly’ (please note that I said “I” would qualify’). They truly and sincerely live examplary, godly lives, descretely serving God and humanity without advertising themselves and certainly not claiming to be ‘God’s people or organization on earth’.

    God intended us to be free willing beings. We have to work towards acquiring that Free Will by freeing ourselves from being slaves to our desires, yes, but also from our fears and acquired mecanisms and beliefs. It all starts with being honest with ourselves and asking questions. We have the duty to do that as God gave us the ability to think rationally, thus differentiating us from animals. It is a much more difficult road than it seems – far more difficult than being a machine, adopting someone else’s ideas and doing someone else’s will – but so much more rewarding!

    I wish you light, with agapi.

    Akhessa

  38. the proclaimer
    October 11th, 2005 at 01:04 | #38

    The Jehovah’s witness organization is the only religious organization in the world that has proven that it “stands on the side of the truth” that Jesus said he came to bare witness to. No other religious organization can compare to this spirit directed organization. In the 24th chapter of the book of Matthew Jesus incinuated that the faithful and discreet slave would give “food at the proper time.” Just look at the timely articles that the organization of Jehovah’s witnesses have published. Recently articles on public housing, and natural disasters have been obtained and distributed to the public in wake of the recent distructive hurricanes that wrecked havoc through the southern states. People need these articles in order to address their real concerns and to be given hope amid such an unforseen occurence like these natural disasters. The article natural disasters relate the account of how Jesus calmed a furious storm while at sea with his disciples. Having this account related to individuals will help to build confidence and heartwarming faith that when Christ rules as king for the 1,000 yrs, there will be no need to fear the possibility of being swept away by uncontrollable natural disasters. Part of the purpose of the Jehovah’s witness organization is to share wonderful truths like the aforementioned based on accurate knowledge of the scriptures. This is not the works of a “cult” as one of the writers called us. This is truely “food given at the proper time.” In response to the individual that referred to us as being contradictory or changing our beliefs, we do not change our basic beliefs; we to the contrary submit to divine light as it illuminates ever brighter and brighter. Read your bibles and you will see that Proverbs 4:18 says: “The path of the righteous is like the bright light that keeps getting brighter, and brighter until the day is firmly established. Understanding bible truth is progressive. Allow me to illustrate. Lets say that there is a model student in a university that usually receives straight A’s and is very competent in mathematics. A day comes whereas this student is having trouble with a particular math problem or even problems. Would it be fair to conclude that just because this student got an answer or more wrong on a quiz or test that the student is a fraud, cheated all through his years of academic excellence, or no longer qualify to be considered a model student. Of course not! He/she would just have to readjust his/her thinking or thought process so that he can gain an accurate understanding of how to solve the mathematical problem(s). If the student held on to his wrong answers dispite knowing that they are incorrect, then it would be a different story. The same is true of bible students(all of Jehovah’s witnesses). The governing body of Jehovah’s witnesses never claimed to be infallible or perfect. Yet when they learn that viewing a scripture or account from a certain angle is wrong, adjustments are made to correct the way that these accounts or prophecies of scriptures are perceived in harmony with the Holy Spirit. Being willing to adjust in harmony with Divine revelation is the one aspect of this organization that makes it true to the word of God. Look at your churches of christendom on the other hand; they dispite being informed of certain pagan, God dishonoring customs that they practice, go on practicing these with no shame whatsoever. Practices like celebrating Christmas, Easter, and so forth. Christmas for example is based on a lie that Jesus was born on this day, but the catholic encyclopedias admit that the date of Jesus’ birth is unknown. They add that the Jews did not even celebrate their own birthdays, because birthday celebrations were of pagan origin. Santa Claus is another lie promoted by the Christmas holiday. Remember that Jesus said that he came to bear witness to the “truth,” so Jesus obviously looks at this supposed celebration of his birth as blasphemous and discraceful. But the churches exchange the truth of God for the lie. Since we’re on the subject of birthday celebrations, lets talk about blowing out the candles which is part of the ritual of birthday celebrations. The person being honored makes a wish, and blows out the candles. This is like practicing sorcery or magic which the bible clearly condemns, and yet many in the churches of christendom allow their members to continue to do such God dishonoring things. The watchtower organization on the other hand stopped celebrating Christmas as well as birthdays when the light of truth revealed the fact that these celebrations were displeasing to God. When the Israelites(Jews) refused to be readjusted their temple was destroyed in 70 C.E. and many were slaughtered by the Romans. This is a lesson for all who would like to exchange the truth of Jehovah almighty God for the lie, by rejecting his word and holding on to pagan customs that displease him. Worse will happen to those that disregard divine truths, yes they will suffer eternal destruction if they do not repent and change their course, allowing themselves to be guided by the light of truth found in God’s word and dispensed by his spirit directed organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I could say a lot more, but I will allow someone to respond to this letter and speak later.

  39. Ruth
    October 10th, 2005 at 15:57 | #39

    The WTBTS fear of quotes from their publications is amusing to me. It strongly indicates they have said much they wish to sweep under the carpet. Their adjusted history in their publications is obvious to those of us who have associate for many many years with them. Perhaps they are just hoping those of us who remember many of these quotes will just go away or that their older publications will disappear like they did from the Kingdom Halls so they can try and hide the truth of their history. Truth does not need to be hidden if it is indeed the truth. The WTBTS is very afraid of being exposed to their followers as deceitful. So much for their so called value of “TRUTH”.

  40. Sfo
    October 9th, 2005 at 23:13 | #40
  41. Sfo
  42. October 9th, 2005 at 17:19 | #42

    Thank u people 4 opening my eyes 2 the’truth’.I was gonna go back after talking 2 another person, but when the wts wants u 2 destroy watchtowers past 2 yrs. make u Think! Could anyone tell me does this include books or just ‘post2yrs. ago watchtowers? How about the Awake, is it nixed 2? thanks,

  43. Frank Richier
    October 7th, 2005 at 16:21 | #43

    I guess God changes his mind when it suits him, and then in his flawed imperfect way tries to hide his mistakes through a bunch of lawyers and the legal system. Remember everything the WTS says is from “God”…Maybe his biggest mistake was choosing the WTS to be his mouthpiece.

  44. Kitty Pride
    October 7th, 2005 at 09:41 | #44

    Dear Richard,
    I Am Sorry For All You Have Been Through As A JW And I Completely Understand You Feeling That It Is The Closest To The Truth Out There.
    There Have Been Quite A Few Times I Wished To Go Back But, Bless Our Heavenly Father…He Makes Sure Something Always Reminds Me To Stay Away.

    I Think You And I Have Digressed From The Topic Article Of This Thread And So I Will Just Answer One Part Of You Comment As A Whole.

    You Ask: Who besides that group are making an attempt to follow as closely as they can the teachings of Jehovah? I don’t know of any, if anybody else does, would you please let me know.

    Well I Think There Are Many Groups Of People Out There Who Are Trying The Best They Can. There Is A Growing Movement Of People Home Churching. That Is What My Children And I Do. You Can Meet As A Family And You Can Find Others And Meet In Each Others Homes Just Like The 1st Century Christians. In My Area We Are The Only X-JW’s Doing This That I Know Of. There Is A Few Former Baptist Families Near Us Who Are Doing This Also.

    Then There Are Other Groups Who Are Part Of Organized Religion Who Are Doing The Best They Can. I Read A Thread At A JW/ X-JW Forum That Started Like This…
    Are JWs the Only Christian Religion who Do Not Fight in Wars?

    *** w90 2/1 p. 22 Exposing “the Man of Lawlessness” ***
    In our century, which religion has obeyed this law of love? Surely not the religions of Christendom, for they have slaughtered one another by the tens of millions in two world wars and other conflicts. It is Jehovah’s Witnesses who have obeyed the law of love earth wide. They have maintained strict neutrality in the wars of the nations, for Jesus said that his followers must be “no part of the world.” (John 17:16)

    Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
    Amish
    Mennonites
    Church of the Brethren
    Unitarian Univervalists

    You Can Find That Discussion Here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/99338/1.ashx

    I Want To Say Richard I Commend You For Keeping Your Beliefs For So Many Years And For Being Brave Enough To Stand Up To The Elders!! I Found That Part Of Your Story Quite Amazing!
    I Was Never Like That As A JW. The Whole Time I Was Overly Sheep Like……Guess I Forgot That Sheep (Real Sheep) Do Bite!

    Nice To Have Met You,
    Many Blessings,
    Kitty Pride
    P.S. Richard….If You Go Here
    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/default.ashx
    And Introduce Yourself I Think You Will Find Some Of The Answers You Need. Not All The Answers Though Because Life Would Be Very Boring With Nothing More To Learn!

  45. October 7th, 2005 at 00:36 | #45

    In response to Kitty Pride, my heart goe’s out to you and to those who have lost a loved one because of holding fast to the teachings of the W.T.B.T.S.
    I went through the blood issue in 1975 while in U.S.C. Medical center in Los Angeles.Whil there I had an elder come in and asked if I was ready, ready for what, I thought. I had only been in the (truth) for about ten years. Perhaps I was missing something, I couldn’t figure out what he was talking about, when asking if I was ready. A large assembly was being held at Dodger Staium while I was hospitalized. I learned later that 1975 was to be the year that Armagetton was to be usered in.Of course, that year came and went, with no such event taking place.
    On the blood issue: I had doctors comming in telling me I was going to die unless I recived a blood transfusion.One day at about 2:pm doctors came in and said that they were going to take me into surgery at 6:pm and that I should see who I wanted to see and make my final arrangements, because they didn’t feel I would survive the opperation.
    My blood count went down to three and eleven and was still bleeding out.
    After spending some 12 weeks in hospitals I made it out and came back to the central coast. After another weeks stay in the hospital I finally saw home once again. I had remain steadfast and reframed from any blood transfussions.
    When I went to the meeting, the elders said that I needed to sign a sworn statement stating I reframed from a blood transfussion. I asked why! Because we don’t believe you was they reply. I stated that this was a matter between me and my God Jehovah and that if my word wasn’t good enough, then why would a signed statement make any diffrence!
    I have since been disfellowshiped. I recently found out that now it’s okay for a Jehovah’s Wittness to except blood. Iknew about the year 1914 and how that came to pass, and now 1975 and that year also comming to pass with no event taking place.
    When I found the Truth, I really belived that I had finally found the TRUTH.
    There are so many things that I could point out which I belive is faulty with the W.T.B.T.S., but I still down deep within my heart of hearts belive that they are the closest thing to the truth that I have seen.
    Who besides that group are making an attempt to follow as closly as they can the teachings of Jehovah? I don’t know of any, if anybody else does, would you please let me know.
    I want to hold fast, but I’m really perplexed here. I think the only thing I can do is be the best person I can and keep looking to Jehovah for my strength.
    I could relate several instances where the brothers have really acted un godly and just pissed me off to no end. But, we can’t condem the who orginazation by the actions of a few, that wouldn’t be fair.
    My grandfather wrote a book intitled “The Man Who Owned The Hogs” He spent fifty years in researching the Bible and it’ teachings. He has documentation of teachings that paralell the Christian scriptures that go back decades before Jesus ever came upon the scene. Walking on water, raising from the dead, healings, all those and other miricals had been performed by other self proclaimed profits already.
    His book uses the act where Jesus drove a hurd of swine into the sea. That hurd of swine was another man’s livelhood,this was not just a few pigs that drowned, but rather hundards and hundards, causing this swin hurder to loose his livelyhood. He was now on the trail to find this man called Jesus and confront him about his bastardly deed. The book is written in the first person and is a brillant piece of writting.
    My grandfather’s work has been compaired with Swift and Voltaire by: Professor Gerald A. Larue and Richard Smoley.
    My grandfather was a man that would and did shine in the eyes of his creator, for unlike any other person I have ever come across in my life time, my grand father lived and fullfiled his talents to the very best of his abality.I could go on and tell you about all the many things he was accomplished in, but, I’ll stop here.
    He and I would have many discussions about my faith in Jehovah. He was not one to aruge, never did I ever see him aruge with anyone. He would say,”if the other person is so insistant on wanting to be right, then let him think that he is”.He use to think I was silly for holding on to my belief, exspecialy when he had so much evidence to the contery.
    There are things in this life that we will never come to fully understand or explain, I cuess that’s wher faith comes into play. Although I’m disfellowshipped, I still hold a certin belief, I only hope that’s enough to please my creator. Please excuse my spelling

  46. Kitty_Pride
    October 5th, 2005 at 16:41 | #46

    I Have To Say When I Was In “The Truth”™ I Knew About Many Of The Old Publications And What They Said.
    I Bought The Light Gets Brighter As The Time Draws Near.
    I Think Any Jehovah’s Witness Who’s Family Has Been In Many Generations Who Hangs Out With Old Timers Like I And My Children Did Knows A Lot Of What Was In Older Publications. Some Of The Friends Have Many Publications That Date Way Back On Their Shelves.

    The Truth About “The Truth”™ Was Always Right In Front Of Us.
    Why Else Did We Sit On The Edge Of Our Seats At Conventions Waiting Impatiently For The Announcement Of “New Light” To Come From The Platform? Waiting For One Less Burdening Rule Beyond What Was Written To Be Lifted From Our Weary Shoulders.

    It Wasn’t Until My Little Family Went Through The Pain Of My Unjust Disfellowshipment Did I Understand The Pain Of The Person Who Say Needed The Organ Transplant But Could Not Get One Because It Was Considered Cannibalism By “The Governing Body”.

    Imagine To Choose Between A Transplant And Living!!
    But Then Dieing That Day To All Your Family And Friends!!
    To Maybe Even Think Of Yourself As Dead In Jehovah’s Eyes??

    Then Imagine The Families After Their Loved One “Made A Stand For Jehovah” And Died By Not Receiving A Transplant.
    Imagine The Pain Of These Families When “New Light” Came Ever So Late That It Was Now Good In Jehovah’s Eyes To Have A Transplant And Save Your Life!
    Did Their Loved One Die Serving Jehovah Or Did They Die To Serve “The Watchtower”™?

    Even Children Died Not Receiving Organs So Their Families, Their Parents Could Make “A Stand” For “The Watchtower”™ I Can Not Imagine How These Families Must Feel Having Lost Their Children To Death Based On A Group Of Men’s Consciences Up In New York.
    Imagine The Pain Of Families Who Lost Their Hemophiliac Children Back When “The Watchtower”™ Did Not Allow Blood Fractions For Medical Treatment. Does Anyone Even Know The Number Dead Because Of Medical Mandate Given By “The Watchtower”™ That Later Was Removed And Allowed By “New Light”.

    Let’s See….1st “The Watchtower” Did Not Allow Vaccinations. How Many Died From Polio And The Like?
    Then Organ Transplants….. Then Blood And Blood Fractions….How Many Deaths Are On “The Watchtower’s”™ Hands?
    How Many Helpless Children Died ?

    I Am Ashamed That Even With So Called “Old Light” Right In Front Of My Eyes I Did Not Some How Know.
    I Am Wondering How All The Old Timers Could Remain In And Some How Not Know.

    How Is It We Could/Can Sit There From Convention To Convention Waiting For That All So Exciting “New Light” And Not Realize How Wrong This All Was/Is?

    Why Did I Have To Suffer Injustice At “The Watchtower”™ Hands 1st Before I Could See The Injustices Done To Others ?

    No Group Of Men Should Have Such Power Over Other People, Over Children To Be Able To Go So Far As To Decide Who Lives Or Dies! This Is Only For God To Decide And I Think He Chooses Life.

    I Hope This Quotes Site Never Is Removed Off The Internet.
    He Is A Brave And Insightful Man.

    Same For Those Who Make This Site.
    Thank-You For Those Who Are Out There To Inform The General Public And Un-Plug The Rest Of Us.
    Arigatou
    Kitty_Pride

  47. October 5th, 2005 at 03:59 | #47

    IT TOOK ME 47-YEARS TO FIND OUT THAT THE W.B.T.S. WAS THE BIGGEST CULT IN THE WORLD. THANKS TO THE BIG SHOT ELDERS IN SOME OF THE CONGREGATIONS, THEY LEAD AN HONEST HEARTED PERSON TO THINK DEEPER ON WHAT THE CULT IS DOING. THEY HAVE FLIP-FLOPED ON SO MANY THINGS THAT THEY ARE IN A BIG HOLE AND CAN NOT GET OUT OF IT. I AM NOT PROUD OF THE 47-YEARS THAT I SPENT IN THE CULT BUT I NEVER QUESTIONED ANYTHING BEFORE. I SURE FOUND OUT WHY THEY DO NOT PERMIT ANYONE TO GO ON THE INTERNET. IN MY EXPERIENCE I WOULD SAY THAT A GOOD COUNTER SUIT BY PETER MOSIER WOULD PUT THEM IN THEIR PLACE. MAYBE ALL OF US SHOULD GET TOGETHER AND ASK HIM IF HE WOULD LIKE TO DO THAT. THE COMMENTS BEFORE MINE WERE VERY INTERESTING. THANKYOU FOR LETTING ME COMMENT.

  48. October 4th, 2005 at 22:39 | #48

    Hmmmm, burning the ‘old light’?, shouldn’t give off much of a glow anyhow! What would old C.T. Russell say? Remember his quotes about new light like going through a building and as you move through you put on more lights and it gets brighter. Seems like the watchtower is now stumbling about in the dark (as usual!) and shooting out the lights as they soon as they find another one to put on! I certainly won’t be destroying my 1909 ‘Studies in the Scriptures’ set, why there’s such wonderful pictures of pyramids and how they tell us the world is coming to an end in 1914!, or “Millions now living will never die” advert and book which tells us all the prophets of old would be here by 1935 at the latest. Or even knowing that (their)Jehovah has his dwelling in the Pleadies nebulae on a place called Alcoyne. Get rid of that wonderful truth?!!!! never, it’s too good and exposes them as false teachers. Hang onto your stuff Jw’s, and compare it to today’s light!. Even just compare “You can live forever in paridise on earth” with todays teachings, and spot the differences!.

  49. Bernard Kruger
    October 4th, 2005 at 19:40 | #49

    In an October 4, 2005 comment, Dera mentions that the Watchtower is “now saying to destroy old Watchtower publications that are older than 2 years.” Can anyone verify the accuracy of this statement for me (e.g. with a reference to a specific Watchtower publication)?

    Thanks,

    Bernard

  50. dera
    October 4th, 2005 at 13:57 | #50

    This is a sad statement on behalf of the Watchtower organization when it sues for it’s material being published on a website. They ask their people to go door to door to publish their information, why would they not wish it also to be spread on the Internet ?

    Probably because they had such strange information printed in older copies of their books. It is embarrassing for them to read such “snake oil” remedies, etc. in our age of enlightment. They used to teach organ transplants were canabilism and were not allowed for Jehovah’s witnesses, now they have changed that, and many Jehovah’s Witnesses take organ transplants. This is only one of their laws which they have changed. So I suppose they want all those old quotes from their own literature destroyed. They are now saying to destroy old Watchtower publications that are older than 2 years. That way no evidence will be around to “stumble” present members.

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  1. November 21st, 2009 at 19:15 | #1