Michael Jackson visits Kingdom Hall with his mother
Is Michael Jackson re-embracing the values of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, even though he’s publicly separated himself from the denomination in the past?
As I reported over the weekend, Michael Jackson decamped from Neverland for a few days while he awaited the jury’s decision.
Jackson and his inner circle checked into the posh Santa Ynez Inn on Friday.
Jackson is also said to have made an appearance on Sunday with his mother, Katherine Jackson, at her local church.
This would indicate that, at least for the moment, the singer is re-embracing the values of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, even though he’s publicly separated himself from the denomination in the past.
But what Jackson mostly did over the weekend was to hide from taking responsibility for the dismissal of his publicist, Raymone K. Bain.
Over the weekend, Jackson was happy to let his younger brother Randy Jackson take the flak for putting Bain’s firing on his own Web site.
Source: Foxnews
Dawn, you are the latest to take the prize for naivety & ignorance, sorry to say. One day, when you decide to stick your head out of the closet you are currently in, you will see the great hypocrisy easily seen by a large majority of us about the WTS. Of course, not everyone who wears WTS colored glasses will see this. Here’s a hint for you, take the glasses off sometime. Stop towing the WTS party line/agenda and think for yourself. Many of the comments made by those not supporting the WTS have not been executed with hateful language as you state. This will be hard for you to grasp, but did you know that not everyone who leaves this religion even voluntarily, are in sorry state with God? They just didn’t agree with the all-mighty WTS & it’s persistent need to control people’s lives. Like myself, we not only didn’t need an earthly org. as a mediator to God, we found after studying the facts (not heresay by the WTS) that the org. was spreading falsehoods.
Here is my recommendation for you. Instead of trying to make all the so-called apostates look bad with your comment, perhaps you could justify the WTS doctrines. The generic flavor of your comment is not conducive to persuading anyone who is contemplating or even vacillating on becoming involved with your faith.
I respect many of the JW’s that I personally still know, however I do not respect the WTS and it’s MO.
When you have studied all the facts and still believe that the WTS is inspired by God, then come back & convince others based on your factual input.
To start, please study the KNOWN facts and determine where you stand in relation to them. As you very well know, your faith has always promoted a black n’ white concept of letting your “yes mean yes” & your “no mean no”. So in there is the caveat to which you will find yourself experiencing, which is, “Will I (that being you) continue to stick my head in the sand & pretend that this is still the truth or will I accept facts for what they are and not dilute the implications resulting from what I have learned?” Remember according to your own faith, there are NO grey areas. So without further delay, here are some facts long known & widely published (which incidentally influenced my decision to not come back):
1. WTS involvement with the UN
2. Their ill-handling of the pedophile issue (they run other religions down for this same problem in their literature)
3. Long history of falsehoods, predictions, dates, etc. Is this the true prophet?
4. Blantant hypocrisy in how they handled the bribery problem in Mexico, while their brothers & sisters suffered in Malawi (if you don’t know, find out).
5. The 1914 doctrine is not only quickly being outdated, it was never substantially proven. Name one scholar or historian who agrees with the date that the temple was destroyed. The 1914 date was originally the date for Armageddon, study your publications of the past before the WTS edited them when they were wrong yet again.
I could give you many more to look up, however this is not a question of whether JW’s are liked or not, etc. This isn’t a popularity contest, this is your life, so before you show up here thinking you got it all figured out, STUDY ALL THE FACTS PLEASE.
Please do yourself a favor do some research,
God Bless,
James
I have read your post and can see that Jehovah Witnesses is not the organization for you — but it might be for someone else. Why the anger?? You are an authority on JW’s. Why should anyone believe you just because you spew hatred? If you were a little more kinder in your observation of JW’s then people might be more attracted to your rhetoric. Lighten up,you don’t have to be so dogmatic in your approach because people can decide for themselves.
I consider myself an intelligent JW and I can certainly see where you are coming from. I don’t need for any organization to tell me how to distinguish between hatred and mostly fabricated information.
Thank you so much for allowing Jehovah’s name and his organization to become known for what it truly is — the TRUTH. Although we are reading mostly angry apostate information on this site, we can distinguish what is really in one’s heart from their vicious writings. For those of you who don’t know what Jehovah Witnesses are truly about, contact a Jehovah Witness and find out for yourself — don’t believe what you are hearing from disgruntle apostates.
This is the only religious organization today who are trying to adhere to the Bible, even though they aren’t perfect. Jehovah God does not have a perfect organization on earth today and in fact, he never did after Adam and Eve’s sinful fall. Just take a look at the hateful language of those who profess to be Christians from the language of Jehovah Witnesses — decide for yourself.
Some things may have gone wrong in our lives, but don’t blame Jehovah Witnesses for your unsound judgments. We chose to be Jehovah Witnesses, no one forces us! This is not a cult, you can leave anytime you want, it’s up to you.
what can i say? an apostate who can not live up to Jehovah’s high standards? you may have meant well in what you said, but I tell you ‘you are in dire need of Je hovah’s undeserved kindness.And from your comments it shows you never made the truth your own.You lacked accurate knowledge.My advise? Study the Bible and Jehovah for the bestowance of his holyspirit;believe me you need it.
Godfrey
NOTE:
Don’t faultfind if you would come any closer to the “truth”.
Re-read my emails? What do I care if you think I am bitter? I suppose you are a JW? After all, why else would you make such an expert synopsis? You should try experiencing life for once, then you will understand. I realize for you JW’s that the real truth regarding how the WTS conducts itself is a blow to your pride, and beliefs, however it is fact and cannot be changed. No sense getting upset at one of the messengers. Those who are leaving or considering leaving should have access to all sides of the story, not just the brainwashing methods of the WTS.
I am merely pointing out what the WTS is all about like so many in this forum, and have every right to do so.
Before you join the foot in the mouth club, read the WTS own publications from years back & you will see they frowned on extra education. Besides, the last thing the WTS wants is it’s people thinking for themselves. Go to the article on education on this site to see for yourself.
The URL: http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/index.php/watchtower_quotes/do-not/education/
You sound really bitter and unhappy. You should re-read your emails.
“the last few years, the Watchtower Society has started to relax their rules and now some Jehovah’s Witnesses are allowed to go to college”. Jw’s have a choice to go to college. It has never said anywhere”they are not allowed”. We must have accurate information before expressing our “facts”.
You sound really off the wall. What does the percentage of educational ranks have to do with anything?? Very ignorant comment.
Hey
Some people are obviously bitter. Why is it impossible to state your viewpoint without maligning and putting down other people. Sounds like some therapy could be needed here. Its true that a lot of people lead double lives at the KH but having gone to many other churches the exact same thing is true of those other churches. Trust me on this one – I have been there. I think a lot of JW are afraid to be what they want to be which is not a JW – same as in many other churches they just attend for show while they really live a sinful life. So what does it mean that all those people are abnorman – no they’re HUMAN – they want to have their cake and eat it too – the best of both worlds. Now JW are not perfect even elders make bad decisions and I agree that to silently reprove the person was a bad decision but how does that translate into being against the entire organisation because 2 elders screwed up. Or even because 40 elders screwed up – if u ask me if your child is molested and you let another HUMAN BEING elder or not, convince you not to go to the police then you made that decision not the organisation. The organisation and the elders only deal with what happens in the congregation not what happens in respect of the law. Now I am an attorney and I can tell you even the court requires evidence such as doctor’s examination, whether the victim told someone else etc. In fact in English law before we had modern day technology a rape victim would not succeed if she didn’t “raise a hue and cry” right after the incident. Same thing in the Old Testament if someone was raped in a city and she didn’t make some sort of alarm the person could not be punished. Now if it was out in the wilderness that law wouldn’t apply because there would be nobody around. What the congregation is doing by requiring two withnesses is the same thing as what the law does when it looks at medical evidence etc. in determining how to punish someone, they are looking for corroboration of the victim’s report. I have known of cases where an elder have been disfellowshiped because a child reported sexual abuse, and the mother corroborated it by saying the child had also told her about it – and years later it turned out the mother got the daughter to make it up because of some grudge with the elder. So two witnesses doesn’t mean two people have to see the crime, it just means you need one other person to corroborate the story before disciplining someone, which is reasonable although the results may not always be fair.
As to mental illness and social maladjustment all true I agree. But who determined that this world is ‘normal’ – have you watched the nightly news recently? Social maladjustment essentially means that you don’t fit in with society – but if you’ve looked at what society has become that is not such a bad thing. Normal people scare me! And like I say a lot of the psychological pressure comes from people themselves leading a double life and that is their personal responsibility and cannot be blamed on the organisation.
As for people doing their best to please God, that is all true that there are those people inside and outside the KH. As is always stressed at meetings, not because you are sitting here means that you will be saved, or because you are a baptized Witness you will be saved because judgement starts in the house of God. Only God can read the heart so only Jehovah knows who will be saved and we as humans cannot determine that – we cannot judge others whether they JW or non JW.
Hey Marion, where have you gone?
To Marion======Just like the WT and the new light you claim to be getting little by little, you are all wrong about your conclusions. James and I (fri) are definitely not the same person. Unless, of course you now believe in the trinity? Even in that case we would need a third person to be part of the new God head. James, fri and moron, fri, james and moron, james, moron and fri, moron, fri and james. It does have a rime to it, I must admit. Why not have it printed in the WT and claim it as new light!?!?
Another way of us being the same, it would have to be in the sense as the scripture says John 10:30 “I (fri) and the Father (james) are one.” Here, you are getting a bit closer as we seem to be in the same frame of mind and thought when it comes to the WT policies, false prophesies and so on.
Otherwise pal, your assumptions just like many others in your cult are totally wrong!
You would like to believe that everyone else who leaves the witnesses are just disfellowshipped. Well, I cannot speak for James or for hundreds of thousands out there. However, if you had been paying attention to my posts you would have notice that I was part of a judicial committee (3 elders) that let a self confessed abuser go unpunished for the sake of not having the congregation with a bad name. Two elders (I was not in favor of the decision)decided to forgive the person by a simple silent reproof, this despite a person being admonished on 3 previous occasions to change its ways. Since the 3rd. would not agree with the outcome tried to reason with the other 2 to no avail. So, what was the result of the outcome? Not much, de decision (not unamimous) was a silent reproof. That meant that no one besides the abused, abuser and elders would know of the matter, therefore leaving the abuser free to………………………………., please fill in the banks. My conscious would not allow me to be part of such hypocrisy any longer; harboring abusers was not among my idea of a clean religion. Therefore I got up from the judicial committee and vowed to those 2 elders to never return again. I discussed the matter with my wife when I got home and never till this day we set feet in any kingdom hall. It is funny that for about a period of one year we never received a visit from anyone in the congregation including my elder friends. My research started and I could not believe the amount of similar cases found worldwide. We thought about it, researched it, prayed about it and about a year later since leaving the judicial committee we wrote letters to the society to disassociate ourselves, we could not in good faith be part of such a group. Than, we had people coming by truckloads including my dear friend elders trying to sway our minds. I said to them that I was even ashamed as to be recognized as one of them. Believe it or not they still gave us 2 weeks to reconsider our position, eventually an announcement was made that we no longer wished to be part of the wt’s.
As for you leaving for 7 years and than going back, well the bible does say in 2Peter 2:22 “2 The saying of the true proverb.. “The dog has returned to its own vomit”
Now, as for Jw’s being as educated as other religions have you forgotten about the admonition coming from mothership, (WT) that the world was coming to an end and therefore you guys would not need extra education? Thanks to someone else who already point to the statistics.
Educational Rank – Religion – Percentage of members that are college grads:
1. Unitarian Universalist: 49.5%
2. Hindu: 47%
3. Jewish: 46.7%
7. Agnostic: 36.3%
18. Catholic: 20%
20. Lutheran: 18%
21. Seventh Day Adventist: 17.9%
27. Baptist: 10.4%
28. Pentecostal: 6.9%
30. Jehovah’s Witnesses: 4.7%
Marion, one should be free to live one’s life according to one’s decision. It is not up to the WT or anyone else for that matter to tell us what to do with our lives.
If you want to live your life as a wt’s good for you. However, as long as you come in here claiming to be the best and the only true religion, I have the same right to come in here and say that WT is in fact not backed by Jehovah God but the devil. The devil has you under his control. You do his will thinking you are in fact working for God.
If you are such good Christians why do you go against the admonition of the WT and come to the so-called apostate sites? I have asked this questions so many times before no one ever answered it.
Yes, there are many good-hearted people in your cult, I was there once, I know it. Unfortunately wt’s soon get under the control of mother ship therefore ending up doing many many bad decisions in their lives.
Please do yourself a favor, read only your bible. Forget about all other propaganda printed by WT.
Grady you are not alone my friend. There are many of us who have a hard time adjusting after leaving the cult. This is a natural progression, please do not give up. God loves all his children, he doesn’t just love one organization or people who are self-righteous. It’s amazing that the Lord will love everyone equally, however the WTS teaches other doctrine. Remember to them only JW’s will be saved. What I find rather amusing & so narrow-minded, is this constant belief that it all revolves around them. It is a human selfish tendency to see history making events & the future at the start of our own lives. Millenniumism has been preached in just about every century since Christ left, what makes things different now? Is it the WTS telling us so because of their self-appointed scholarly knowledge? Hmm, I don’t think so. After all, why would I believe the prophecies of a religion when every statement/prophecy so far has been wrong?
Yes, it is easy for the WTS to call everyone an apostate, however when does accountability come into play? Are we to blindly believe all that is told to us, just because they say so? I now test everything of a serious expressed to me, I don’t just jump into it with reckless abondon, or whatever. It’s your life, your’s to control and it’s too short.
I was brought up in this religion, however I grew a brain, something the WTS doesn’t like at all, henceforth their advice to followers not to partake in higher learning.
I learned a long time ago that the WTS almost always has an ulterior motive, built around their success. Name one time they helped any of the rank & file when they were fananically destitude, as they sold everything to embrace the WTS convincing them that the end was near. My own family ran into big-time financial problems and got minimal if any help within their KH. This is exactly what I saw when I was there, it was all to look good, totally superficial activity designed to make everyone think that your brothers & sisters are there to care, however they are actually only paying lip service to this.
Grady, genuine caring & loving people truly do exist outside this religion, don’t be fooled by their pseudo spiritual paradise & mumbo jumbo. Now that I mention this, I am hard pressed as of late to find many Witnesses who actually look happy, considering the illustrious paradise they are apparently living in.
I have numerous friendships, however I do not rely on them totally. You need to rely on yourself & be self-sufficient. Friendships are a nice bonus, however you can have a relationship with the Lord without the need of an earthly organization. The Lord will always be there to help, without extra baggage associated with the JW outfit.
Hang in there as you sound somewhat depressed or alone, you can always contact me anytime if you like. My interest is to have JW’s and others see the value in spirituality and not be misled by any person or group bent on destroying people’s freedom.
God bless, keep in touch and Happy New Year.
James
I have just read Jame’s comments and can empathize with many of them. I for the past few years have found my self in similiar circumstances.
I was once very active and commited and looking forward to the future promises paradise and life with my family and the then the years started rolling by. After highschool I started some college but folded under pressures from others questioning if ‘it was a proper goal to set’ since the world was soon to pass anyways. I complied figuring that if I did the right thing everything would be alright. I also tried to do the ‘right thing’ when in came to having only JW friends and associations, marrying a JW, devoting time to helping others by preaching, excluding holidays, avoiding unnecessary contact with non-JW’s,etc. etc.
Then I found myself in a divorce with my 3 children due to a cheating spouse who was disfellowshipped. Even though I was the non-guilty party I felt judged, questioned and avoided by the congregation – not excluded completely just push to side. When the time had come for me to recieve some help in return both mentally and physically everyone sorta didn’t want to get involved or were just to busy. I started missing meetings due to health concerns and pressures of life and parenthood but to my suprise no one really seemed to notice or care and as time progressed it didn’t change. My only sin was being absent – I never fell in to a wrong lifestyle or anything like that, just absent and then forgotten with more interest being focused on newcommers to the JW’s.
I really felt that all the time and effort that I put into cultivating friendships and helping others in the organization evaporated… why? I can’t really tell you. This is why I can relate to the ‘unwanted/lost’ feeling mentioned. I still find that I hold to many of the JW beliefs that I was raised with (with a lighter non-judgemental view) but because of that don’t fit into the the general population… Limbo, a bad place to be….
but
Anonymous, I was doing my best to be nice, factual & candid with your statements. I am sorry if you must resort to name calling, etc. This was not evident in my posting. I will merely address your actual important statements.
When many people leave this organization, they feel lost or unwanted by the general population, therefore never allowing themselves to ever get comfortable with others, or even feel a place among them. A lot of this is because of the need to be deprogrammed after hearing the WTS constantly. This has never been an issue for me, as I have an outgoing personality that likes to have fun, however am serious when I need to be, and do not sensationalize or over-complicate my life like many JW’s I’ve met. My dependancy is not on some earthly organization that utilizes the exact same strategies of most cults to lure people in and then apply their so-called well-intentioned machinations on them. In my case, I believe that despite following along and doing all of the religion’s duties, I didn’t really ever succumb to their brainwashing techniques. I know that I am much stronger than that.
My firm belief is that one of mankind’s biggest mistakes was organized religion, as it has always been riddled with greed, stupidity, self-importance, false prophecy, etc. I believe personally in spirituality, regular praying, belief in the Lord & spending time reflecting on what God has given me & my family. To view everything with WTS colored glasses however, would be the wrong approach. In all the years I was involved with this religion and then comparing it to the so-called worldly realm, I absolutely met way more people in the faith who were flaky, bizarre, extremely organizational dependant, psychologically unstable and shallow. This is not to say that I didn’t know some lovely people or make friends, far from it. The biggest difference that I witnessed first hand however, was the state of mind within friendships. The mentality was one of selling out a friend at a moment’s notice if they perceived something wrong or whatever. I am thankful that didn’t happen directly to me, however the irresponsibilty, immaturity & shallow thinking of some is such a shame.
My job has me dealing with the public on a one-on-one basis all the time, so I develop friendships with some, depending on similar interests of course. This has allowed me the ability to innerwardly compare the friendships with these people versus the organization.
I don’t have an axe to grind with the people from the faith, even if some stabbed myself or others I know in the back. My issue is I would love my family to wake up and see that all the baloney they have been fighting is a result of this religion. God did give all his people the freedom to think for themselves, not assign our individuality to some earthly organization that professes to speak for God. Just because they say they speak the truth, doesn’t mean they do. As I stated to my family who are clueless when it comes to these issues, since the almighty WTS doesn’t let them know, I asked them “If this is the correct religion, which you are dogmatically shoving down my throat, perhaps you could tell me why I would want to be part of a religion that has the following issues among others:
1. Constant false prophecy – never one thing stated came true…hello?
2. Pedophilia – running rampant throughout the religion and it is more important to protect the image of the religion than the children (don’t waste your time trying to justify any actions in this area, you wouldn’t want to know what I would do to these people if empowered to do so/their behavior is disgusting).
3. WTS involvement with the UN – if this has to be spelled out, well I’ll just give up now.
4. Hypocrisy – Blantant lying to the rank & file (apparently the WTS sees new light a lot), guilty of telling it’s members one thing & doing the exact same themselves.
5. Bloodguilty – Groverning Body is guilty of terrible sins, such as allowing bribery in Mexico (research it if you don’t know), changing their minds on issues that many died for and received nothing from this clown operation.
Well, I could easily go on, however after your comments above, you may have already jumped off the deep end like so many JW’s I meet, who clam up & get all defensive, since they want to defend their organization, yet factually can’t since the points above are all true. I know personally, when I was in the religion, I had people ask me when at their door some of these questions. Besides, if the WTS hasn’t instructed the rank & file how to address these points and others, they won’t know how to answer them.
In your case if you really feel that this is the correct religion, knowing that Christ would give his full recommendation to it should he arrive today, then knock yourself out. However I know after lots of independant research that this isn’t the case. Think about what God & Christ would do to any outfit guilty of these & other actrocites stated above. The one thing that does irritate me, are the Witnesses who can’t listen even for one second to another side of the story, after all ignorance is bliss correct? The WTS has brainwashed them into thinking that any contradiction or sometimes even pointed questions are apostatsy. It’s time to re-discover your individuality and think for yourself. You can live & think without the all-controlling WTS!
Whatever you decide to do with your life, I sincerely wish you the best and hope that you will see that Christ’s sacrifice was made for all mankind, not just one organization.
Take care,
James
John F. Kennedy said: “A child miseducated is a child lost.” If that is true, hundreds of thousands of children born into Jehovah’s Witness families are lost. Not only are Witnesses the least educated of major religious groups, they are also the poorest of the poor. A recent study revealed that Jehovah’s Witnesses rank dead last in aggregate social status. This finding is as understandable as it is deplorable, given the Watchtower Society’s long-standing hostility toward education. Their aversion to education means that Witnesses have suffered significant economic disadvantages.
The Watchtower Society teaches that Jehovah will soon destroy all non-Witnesses and that Witnesses will be the only ones left on the planet. They believe that the earth will be transformed into a paradise populated only by Jehovah’s Witnesses. This theology is the basis for their belief that it is not a good use of time to pursue a college education or pursue a career. Since their start in 1884, Jehovah’s Witnesses have believed that God’s destruction of the world in a fiery Armageddon was just a few short years off. Therefore, throughout their history, very few have sought an advanced education.
The printed policy of the Watchtower until 1992 is shocking. The 1969 Watchtower said this: “Many schools now have student counselors who encourage one to pursue higher education after high school, to pursue a career with a future in this system of things. Do not be influenced by them. Do not let them brainwash you with the Devils propaganda to get ahead, to make something of yourself in this world. This world has very little time left . . . make pioneer service, the full-time ministry, with the possibility of Bethel or missionary service your goal.” (March 15, 1969, p. 171)
The Kingdom Ministry (06/69, p. 3) said this: “In view of the short time left, a decision to pursue a career in this system of things is not only unwise but extremely dangerous . . . Many young brothers and sisters were offered scholarship or employment that promised fine pay. However, they turned them down and put spiritual interests first.”
In 1993, researchers published the result of a massive survey of trends within major religious groups. Barry A. Kosmin and Seymour P. Lachman conducted a National Survey of Religious Identification. The survey had a sample size of 113,000 people. Of the thirty religious groups included in the survey, Jehovah’s Witnesses had the lowest percentage of their members graduate from college. (Kosmin BA, Lachman SP. “One Nation Under God,” p. 258)
Educational Rank – Religion – Percentage of members that are college grads:
1. Unitarian Universalist: 49.5%
2. Hindu: 47%
3. Jewish: 46.7%
7. Agnostic: 36.3%
18. Catholic: 20%
20. Lutheran: 18%
21. Seventh Day Adventist: 17.9%
27. Baptist: 10.4%
28. Pentecostal: 6.9%
30. Jehovah’s Witnesses: 4.7%
In the last few years, the Watchtower Society has started to relax their rules and now some Jehovah’s Witnesses are allowed to go to college. However the underlying attitudes persist, and very few Witnesses seek a college education. Why do so few Witnesses still not go to college, despite the softening of the Society’s official position on college education?
The Society continues to warn of the dangers of college and remind followers that college education will not be necessary in the paradise, which they predict will come soon. Note these recent quotes from the Watchtower: “In the present system of things under Satan’s control, there are many things that may seem to promise fine benefits but can actually be damaging to our relationship with God. Such things as climbing the corporate ladder, pursuing higher education to advance one’s position, courting unbelievers, or engaging in questionable business schemes can easily lead to a loss of faith and an eventual fall from Jehovah’s favor. We must carefully count the cost when confronted with such temptations. A few years ago, a young Christian man in a large city in the Far East had the opportunity to go abroad to further his study. Though he already had a good secular education and a well-paying job, he felt that this was not enough; he wanted to better his lot in life. Fellow Christians tried to reason with him in line with the Scriptural points we have just considered, but he was adamant and went ahead with the plan. Though he tried to hold on to his faith at first, gradually he lost his appreciation for Bible truth, and doubt began to set in. In just a year or so, he lost his faith completely and claimed to be an agnostic.” (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1992, p. 28-29)
Instead of encouraging young people to plan for the future, the Watchtower Society encourages people to seek part-time menial labor so that they are more free to spend time pioneering. Typical of the advice that the Watchtower gives is this: “Many pioneers support themselves financially by means of part-time jobs. To sustain himself in the ministry at Corinth, Paul worked as a tentmaker along with his fellow believers Aquila and Priscilla. Today, spiritual brothers are often happy to offer pioneers part-time secular work. Other pioneers obtain such work through employment agencies that offer temporary jobs. Faith in God is essential, and so is earnest prayer for his guidance in making employment decisions.” (Watchtower, Sep. 15, 1993, p. 29)
Young Jehovah’s Witnesses are given this model to follow: “Whenever I read about pioneer experiences in the Society’s publications, I found that my desire to become a full-time servant of Jehovah was aroused. . . . I was working full-time, and this provided the extra income needed to maintain us. I realized, however, that unless I also obtained a part-time job, full-time service would not be possible . . . Success in pioneering is mainly a matter of faith that Jehovah will care and provide for us. So he suggested that I resign from my full-time job.” (1993 Yearbook, p. 235) The anecdote goes on to say that she did get a part-time job, and that she is now very happy pioneering.
It should not be surprising that The National Survey of Religious Identification found that the annual income of Jehovah’s Witnesses ranks 24th out of 30 religious groups surveyed. (Kosmin BA, Lachman SP. “One Nation Under God,” p. 260) According to the same survey, Jehovah’s Witnesses ranked last in aggregate social status. (Kosmin BA, Lachman SP. “One Nation Under God,” p. 262) Aggregate social status was based on four sets of data: home ownership, annual household income, college graduation, and percent working full-time.
OK Fri & James You sound like one and the same person, both disfellowshipped and with an axe to grind.
It may interest you to know that I left the organisation for 7 years, I didn’t find the wonderful freedom that you speak of, there was nothing better. I am now back and I shall never leave again.
On the subject of Witnesses having psychological problems if it eases your conscience to believe this then believe it, but remember that one in four people are likey to have clinical depression at some time in their lives, and if you put an innocent person in prison with hardened criminals you can hardly expect his psychological condition to be very great, don’t use this silly arguement to turn people against Witnesses. You might both feel psychologically better yourselves if you dwelt on the positive things that JW’s do rather than the exagerated claims that you are so willing to believe. If you are good people and your parents are JW’s then how was your upbringing at fault.
As one time JW’s you will know that there is the same ratio of intelligent well educated people among them as there are in other religions, so don’t try to pretend that they are all morons.
You well know that the majority of ex JW’s who post their criticisms on the internet are disfellowshiped whiners like both of you.
There are many many really happy and fulfilled Jehovah’s witnesses who love their way of life.
You have made your choice and you have to live with it. Leave the Witnesses alone.
Marion
To Moron:—-In essence you are saying that Jw’s are not corrupt, dunkers, drug abusers, producing fatherless children, do not transmit sexual diseases and don’t take part in wars. Wow, we have a perfect religion! I want to be part of them (jw’w) when I grow up. **Sarcasm intended**
Witnesses are more corrupt than anyone else I know. Check for yourself how many molesters are harbored by the society.
Drunkenness, Drug Abusers: You forget or tend to forget the double lives that most jw’s live, You have got to go on the web to check the testimonials of these people. Of course this information cannot be trusted, after all was not printed in the watchtower by the mother ship, right?
Fatherless children: That is a good one. How many fatherless & motherless children exist in the society for the simple reason mother ship will forbid them from talking to their parents just because they decided to leave the cult, and vice versa?
You have no leg to stand on my friend. Please open your eyes and see what the WT is doing to YOU.
Just yesterday I bought the new book Crisis of Conscience (fourth edition by Raymond Franz) I am already on page 176. It is unbelievable the way the society operates. It is like writers doing material for a soap opera. Lots of copies in its original form (judicial committee letter, governing body letters and so on…) Of course you don’t have to believe me, just buy the book and check for yourself.
As for war, No, Jehovah’s witnesses do not join the wars. Unfortunately they do that at home, by not associationg, visiting even speaking to their loved ones, them being: mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, grandfathers, grandsons, ants, nieces and the list goes on.
I left the WT about 5 years ago because the congregation covered up a case of abuse. Even when the person confessed, the person was still forgiven, this after 5 years of counsel . I did not agree with the other elders and therefore resigned. After leaving the org. my wife and I decided to have children as we no longer had to obey the WT and have children in the new order. My son is now 3 years old. My mother in law used to see him every weekend. However by the time the baby was 9 months she (grandmother) said she was advised by the elders to no longer associate with us, therefore she has not seen her only grandsoon in over 2 years. We live 6 miles away. My wife is torn to pieces because her mother will not see the only grandchild she will ever have, why I ask? Apparently because we don’t want to be witnesses. So, witnesses wont join the war for the simple reason that they have a bigger war going on a daily basis with their own loved ones. Is leaving the witnesses in good standard a good reason for grandmother not to see grandson anymore? I wonder what Jesus would have to say about that?
Shame on the WT for such a conduct. I cannot blame my mother in law on the matter. The wt’s are so brain washed that they will do just about anything the mother ship tells them to do.
I swear that if the watchtower printed an article saying: in order to be in paradise all the witnesses would have to jump over the bridge. The nitwits would fight to see who would jump first.
By the way, I have no problem with your view differing from mine. I just have a problem with hypocrites coming in here claiming to be the true religion when in fact they are a cult, a cult that follows a bunch of devious hypocrites in Brooklyn or Patterson wherever they may be.
Unfortunately Marion, there is a lot of mental health issues within the rank & file of JW’s. A family member of mine’s wife is not well at all, she truly needs psychological help, however they are not able to associate or even comprehend that their belief system generated by the WTS & the culture within the KH’s, as the major reason for this. Many JW’s develop problems in my opinon, due to the feeling they are never doing enough, a guilt feeling that they must give more than humanly possible to their religion. Consider that the organization tracks their hours spent in the field, maintains they must go to lots of meetings a week, study in advance for these meetings as well, they live in a constant dream-like state as created & fed by the WTS and try to raise a family as well. Time after time in my travels I see & hear from good sources about JW’s being one person at the KM & another at home. This type of two-faced personality cannot be good for a person’s well-being, however there is a whole lot more related to this. Consider what challenges people go through to come back to reality when they have left or been pulled out of a wacko cult. JW’s are in a cult as well, however the brainwashing influencing doesn’t appear to be so self-destructive. What is not realized, is that it can be mentally destructive depending on that person’s psychological make-up and how they individually react to it. If you don’t have a bearing on what is normal anymore, then how can you become normal? It took me quite a while to truly see all of the WTS BS, and I am so glad that I did before it was too late. Once people put themselves in positions like marriage, kids & hierarchy within the KM, it is much tougher to leave, even for those who in their heart believe they should. I wish I could help my family understand the dilemmas they face on a daily basis, however they don’t have anything to do with me. What they don’t understand is why I feel great, have my act together & most of all, I truly know what god-given freedom is.
What a polite person you are Fri, who are you to call me Moron just because my views differ from your gush of hot air.
It seems to me that you are the one who needs a psychiatrist if you prefer the “freedoms” of corruption , drunkeness, drug taking, and producing fatherless children, not to speak of sexually transmitted diseases and taking part in war. I think normal people would opt for peace and good health.
The only ones you can sway to your strange ideas about the Witnesses are the people who don’t really know them.
By your comments you show that you are fanatic in your hatred of the Witnesses. What made you feel this way, I feel sorry for you, but I think I know who I am speaking to and this will be my last comment.
marion
To Moron or was that Marion? Continuing……
In addition, a German study by Elmer Koppl [25] also came to similar conclusions as did a study by Norwegian psychologist, Kjell Totland [26] Using Oakland County court records from 1965 to 1973, Bergman concluded that not only is the mental illness rate above average, but the suicide and crime rates are also high, especially aggressive crimes against persons [27] This is the extent of published empirical studies about the mental health of Jehovah’s Witnesses, an area in which a need exists for more research.
Common Witness Reactions to This Research
Witnesses commonly react to the research on their mental health by refusing to acknowledge its validity. [36] They may cite the Watchtower’s teaching that “…the Christian Witnesses of Jehovah are the best oriented, happiest, and most content group of people on the face of the earth. They get along better with each other than do people of any other religion, tribe or social group. They have the least need for psychiatrists.” [37] The Watchtower [38] adds: “Jehovah God has a New World Society operating earth-wide today, and that it is through it that true happiness can be found.” Many Witnesses accept this statement as true even though their own experience is often contrary to this frequently repeated misconception.[39] Interestingly, the Watchtower has not made the above claim lately, and they are now more aware of this problem, as is obvious from their discussions of this issue in their publications and at their meetings.[40] Yet they have done little concrete to respond to it in the last decade except to publish numerous articles in their official magazines on depression and similar topics, mostly with primarily pop psychology content. The Watchtower also has not responded to the areas identified as the most serious factors causing emotional problems, and they have actively resisted even minor changes emanating from both insiders and outsiders.
The Tendency to Protect the Society
The attempt of individual Witnesses to protect the Watchtower is a major impediment to research. The author, from working with almost one hundred active Witnesses who were mentally ill, has repeatedly experienced their revealing significant doubts, troubles, and fears (an important part of which is the personality conflicts common within the congregation) and then a short time later, while attempting to proselytize their neighbors, state that “Jehovah’s Witnesses are the happiest people on the face of the earth.” [41]
Another response is the following rationalization: “True Christians will be persecuted for God’s name sake–and God’s name is Jehovah. Thus Jehovah’s Witnesses are persecuted–and these statistics about the high mental illness rate are just another example of the persecution against us.” [42] Although Witnesses are sensitive about the common antagonism against them and many persons regard them as somewhat “strange,” most know little more about them other than the fact that they refuse to salute the flag and accept blood transfusions. Many pastors have commented to the author that it is difficult to stimulate church members to study Watchtower theology in order to effectively present orthodox Christianity to Witnesses who visit their homes.
Of course Moron, Marion whatever the name is you don’t have to believe the research, after all it was not printed in the watchtower, therefore can not be true right? Only Jw’s speak the truth, only WT prints the truth. Everyone and everything else is lies. Right?? I pity your poor soul my friend!
To,We truly live in a dreadful world. I have read all the hateful comments about Jehovah’s Witnesses mostly written by bitter self interested people. The truth is that Jehovah’s witness try to live the way that God wants them to, and this can only be done by studying his word the Bible, something which a lot of your commentators would do well to copy. They are not perfect but they try harder than any other religion that I know of. The proof of their upright and honest way of life can be seen in the fact that many companies like to employ them, and the fact that they do not fill the prison like the other so called “christians”.
We need more of them to populate our violent cities, so don’t knock them, and if anyone thinks that their stand on blood transfusion is wrong I advise them to get up to date by going to the site “Bloodless Surgery”
Let’s all pray for the Kingdom that Jesus spoke about to come as soon as possible to heal this sick world.
Marion
Marion, The only persons who live in a dreadful world are the witnesses for the simple reason that they cannot live their lives to full enjoyment, after all they are slaves of the WT. A slave can never have a happy life.
If you told me that Jw’s are living the way god wants them too, wow, I would have to say: here are the true Christians! However, you said and I quote: “witness try to live the way that God wants them to”. For your information, you brainless naïve, jw’s are not the only ones trying to live like god wants. You just say that because you have the common belief, just like the rest of the witnesses that all witnesses are good and will live on paradise earth while the rest are bad and marked for death at Armageddon. POOR YOU!
If for a moment you think that companies prefer to employ witnesses over any other person you are just full of it period, you are just parroting something you heard in a talk at the kingdom hall that was recycled in so many talks and now you believe it to be true.
Marion, witnesses do not fill the prisons like the rest for the simple reason that they are just 6 million. However, if we go by percentage there are more molesters in your cult than any other religion!
PLEASE CHECK THE FOLLOWING RESEARCH:
Swedish psychiatrist Dr. Rylander investigated a sample of conscientious objectors imprisoned in Sweden. Of the 135 randomly selected cases, fully 126 were Witnesses. Of these 126, Dr. Rylander diagnosed 51 as neurotic, 42 psychotic, 32 as mentally retarded, and 5 as brain-damaged……. About four percent of the eligible armed service Swedish population were judged psychologically “unfit” for military services. The corresponding figure for Witnesses was twenty-one percent, or a rate five times greater.
Pescor, in the first study on American Witness mental health, diagnosed as psychotic over seven percent of his total sample (n=177) of young males imprisoned due to obeying the Watchtower’s prohibition against complying with military regulations.[13] The sample was obtained by interviewing all selective service violators admitted to the Federal prison medical center during the study. The level of Witness psychosis in his sample was about seventeen times higher than that for the population as a whole. A whopping seven percent were diagnosed psychotic, four percent had other mental abnormalities and fully one quarter were rated socially maladjusted. Sixteen percent of Pescor’s sample were on hospital status and forty-four percent of these were diagnosed psychotic.
Swiss psychiatrist Janner (1963), examined a random sample of 100 Swiss citizens who were imprisoned because of objection to military service, about eighty-five percent were Jehovah’s Witnesses.[14] The study found a significant number of Witnesses showed one or more of the following symptoms: high level of fear anxiety, severe neuroticism, introversion and/or social isolation tendencies. Janner [15] concluded that the Witnesses were generally “somewhat removed from reality, although some demonstrated intense religious feeling.” As found in other studies, the majority of the Witnesses in his sample were unskilled or semi-skilled workers.His research revealed a whopping 10.4 percent of the Witnesses had previous criminal convictions, about half of which were for sexual offenses, mostly pedophilia and exhibitionism. The rest of the criminal connections were for minor property or person offenses. He did not compare the mental illness rate of Jehovah’s Witnesses to the population as a whole, but concluded that the rate among Witnesses was far higher than the rate among non-Witnesses
Spencer, an Australian psychiatrist, examined the records of all admissions to Western Australia psychiatric hospitals from January, 1971 to December, 1973.[16] He located fifty cases that, according to the patients’ own admission, were active Jehovah’s Witnesses. Spencer concluded that the rate of serious mental illness among this group was three times higher than that of non-Witnesses, and the diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia was fully four times higher. A reason that Spencer’s statistics are probably low is that Witnesses are prone to avoid psychiatric treatment and, especially, institutionalization.
Licensed therapist Montague monitored the admissions to state and private mental hospitals, and local mental health clinics in Ohio from 1972 to 1986.[21] From this data (n=102) he estimated that “The mental illness rate of JW’s is approximately 10 to 16 times higher than the rate for the general, nonWitness population [and that]…about 10% of the publishers (full members) in the average congregation are in serious need of professional help…[
We truly live in a dreadful world. I have read all the hateful comments about Jehovah’s Witnesses mostly written by bitter self interested people. The truth is that Jehovah’s witness try to live the way that God wants them to, and this can only be done by studying his word the Bible, something which a lot of your commentators would do well to copy. They are not perfect but they try harder than any other religion that I know of. The proof of their upright and honest way of life can be seen in the fact that many companies like to employ them, and the fact that they do not fill the prison like the other so called “christians”.
We need more of them to populate our violent cities, so don’t knock them, and if anyone thinks that their stand on blood transfusion is wrong I advise them to get up to date by going to the site “Bloodless Surgery”
Let’s all pray for the Kingdom that Jesus spoke about to come as soon as possible to heal this sick world.
Marion
Excuse me Dean, perhaps you should also realize that God is watching the WTS as well, and since they are guilty of lots of stupidity, well we can all only imagine what the supreme ruler must think.
Consider the comment below I posted on another segment:
JW’s are somewhat oppressed as the WTS tells them how to think, act, walk, etc. like the legion of robots they unfortunately are. Individuality is not tolerated (a fact published in their own material), I mean what do you think happens to the rank & file if one were to disagree with a WTS doctrine? After all, not one of their doctrines can be proven! Consider their concepts on 1914, not one historian or scholar agrees with the dates set in which to determine the 1914 outcome (you know when the temple was destroyed). In fact the WTS changed the date by one year many years ago when it was brought to their attention that their math was wrong. No big deal for them, after all it’s the ideaology or agenda, not the facts. Dean, God does not need an earthly organization to have his agenda completed. The WTS should stop taking the place of Christ as a mediator and start revolutionalizing their doctrines & how they govern their people. Most of us non or ex JW’s know how to discern for ourselves, those of us who utilize spirituality in our lives by having a relationship with the Lord can make it through life happy & content. However, JW’s need the WTS to make it through the day, as they can’t think for themselves. If the WTS was brought to it’s knees, perhaps penniless after long lost battles in the courts paying off victims of their pedophiles, we would have a large group of people milling around aimlessly without direction! It is almost laughable, sorry to say.
Perhaps you could prove the 1914 doctrine? Besides, if you read Mr. Franz’s book you see that despite being one of the smartest JW’s around (he doesn’t profess that by the way), he couldn’t prove the 1914 doctrine when required for their written material. One other question, why does the WTS need to release new publications on the same pace as Boy Bands release records? After all I haven’t been involved for years, yet my family can’t tell me anything new being taught by the WTS that I already didn’t know. There is of course the flip flopping on all their ideas, you know where they change their minds on certain issues more than the fast changing weather patterns (check their history). I am not ticked off at the WTS, I see them as they truly are (see below), I would like to have my family back, however everyone has to believe in something. Here is what I believe: I believe the WTS is nothing more than another operation raking in the dough, the left hand telling it’s members what it can & cannot do, however their right hand doing those very things they advocate others not to do. If you haven’t figured out what these are, I mean Stevie Wonder could see these problems, here are some of the know PROVEN facts:
1. WTS offiliation with the U.N.
2. WTS involvement with ownership in company/ies that manufacture weapons.
3. WTS mishandling of the pedophile problem.
4. Corporate Greed manifested through their real estate holdings & dealings.
These are just the icing on the cake. Like I asked my family, why would I get involved with an organization that works like this? Of course they can’t see these problems, after all if your head is stuck in the sand, ignorance is bliss is it not?
If many or even most JW’s are so versed in their religion & profess to know all it’s inner workings, perhaps you could name some or all of the Governing Body members without the need to research it? You know, those folks who are the so-called Faithful & Discreet Slave? Perhaps you didn’t know that this Group didn’t exist for ages, mainly because Rutherford wouldn’t let Russell’s will be done on his death bed, since Rutherford wanted the power to himself? You should read the WTS’ older publications (before revisions to cover their butt), it is laughable & extremely naive. They used to think that aluminium was bad for you, they made predictions that were utter lunacy, what is most troubling is how they have & still dogmatically shove their concepts down the throats of their members, never once apologizing when they were wrong & knew it. Countless JW’s left the organization over the years as they couldn’t sleep at night knowing that it was wrong, these people were fired out the door and are never given an apology once the WTS changes their tune to what they were all saying. People can talk all day long about this if they like, however I still cannot find one Witness who can prove their doctrines using the facts, not guess work & conjecture that the WTS uses. Try using another Bible while you’re at it, as the New World Translation is one of the most biased versions around. They talk about it being taken right from the original manuscripts, yet they add the name Jehovah well over 100 times to the Greek Scriptures, when it wasn’t there to begin with?! They changed other areas to support their anti-Trinity doctrine, regardless of whether there is a 3-in-one or not, that doesn’t give them the right to do these things. Besides, who is the educated scholar(s) at the WTS? That’s right, they don’t have any! If they are filled with God’s spirit and are a prophet, thereby justifying their scholarly knowledge, then perhaps they could at least make one correct prophecy?
Mark my words on one thing. Here is a prediction for you. If the WTS were to start losing a lot of their members/fan base, you will see them lighten up the rules on how disfellowshipped ex-members are treated, as they will become less tyrannical & adopt a more loving approach. This will be sold to the members as a new understanding of God’s will, however the truth really is they need to up the member list & hopefully collect more funds from the rank & file. Trust me, true to all religions who have built any kind of empire, there will always be the need for greed. Besides, they did this before when they were losing members.
Speaking of greed, when was the last time the WTS removed members for material greed (idolatry) or gluttony? You know these are the things mentioned in the Bible? That’s right, these things pale in comparison to their fanatic concern with those they label as an apostate, which really to them is anyone who disagrees with anything they mandate or state. To the average person and high intellect is not required for this, you can easily discern that if a group or organization lives in absolute fear that someone challenges their viewpoint, then there is something wrong with it. After all, if it is the truth, why can’t it stand up & win against questioning or scrutinizing? That my friend is simply the crux right there. The WTS doesn’t speak the truth.
Starting to wake up are you?
??????????????
Chriss, would you care to comment on Mat 5: 23 “If, then, you are bringing your gift to the altar and you there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar, and go away; first make your peace with your brother, and then, when you have come back, offer up your gift.”
To whom would it apply? Please let me know and I will have a few questions for you.
The witnesses in no way impose (with force) that those within the religion can not take blood. The witnesses are simply warning against what God himself wants of us. It’s not the Witnesses standards that they are disobeying but God’s himself. That if they do they must live with the consquences. Whether that includes death from a transmitted disease or ultimate death (meaning this might not be the only thing that they person thinks is “okay” to do and still be considered a Witness) by Jehovah’s disapproval.
There are many who carry themselves with a outward appearance of doing things that are correct. But inwardly and in the privacy of their own homes, or with those without the same beliefs, do things that are against bible principles. Just because they themselves consider to be associated with the Witnesses does not automatically make them approved in God’s eyes, a true christian or worshipper of him. I’m sure there’s many people that do wrong things and consider themselves Witnesses, which is sad.
Remember though the scripture “and yet that is what some of you were”, refering to homosexuals, fornicators, idolators, gluttons, greedy persons, etc. People can change if they want to. They can change for Jehovah if not for themselves. MJ could be one of those, perhaps he’s wisened up. Just don’t think if he straightens up though he could hold responsibility within the congregation. He can’t.
And to say that religion itself is a breeding ground or a place for hording those that prey on children is disgusting and an outright lie. There is a very strict policy on disfellowshipping those that abuse/molest children. These cannot, even after repentence, hold a position of responsibility and other precautionary measures are taken. The congregation does not tolerate nor condone anything even remotely related to abuse/molestation.
We’ve debated before what a cult actually is. In the old old days a cult was defined as a group of Celts that wore black hooded garments and chanted in castles while holding candles. Today a cult could be even considered a group of people really interested in something, say Starwars. This movie has a cult like following. The word has really lost it’s meaning and thus has no hold to definition of religion.
The reason for such, let’s say, it’s an organized religion is that God himself is organized. The bible says that God is a god of order. Consider if the Witnesses conducted themselves like Catholics? Imagine the chaos of millions distributing billions of pieces of literature. Imagine trying to get the many billions of hours of time spent talking to interested ones out in the field ministry. Imagine trying to distribute fine “spiritual food at the proper time” with assemblies, meetings, etc without the much needed order. Impossible…
The point of strictness with principles or rules is God himself. The bible itself states “a little leaven ferments the whole loaf” or the one about the bad apple. Bad association isn’t just for regarding those outside the religion but those within. Therefore we must all abide by god’s commandments as thoroughly as possible. Not only for our brothers and sisters but for God himself. If we let everyone just do what they want, chaos. But not only that but its displeasing to God. He wouldn’t stand for it. Neither do we. Our policy is his.
Dear Friend,
Of course your examples fall out in terms of time and place.
For example how can JWs be accused of changing policies on Vaccine(?) and Transplants at a time no policies about such issues have been fully stated?!
Soon we will be asking the Apostles of Jesus day what they will do with apostate and pornographic internet sites!
All the policies of the JWs are many times very obvious to people: Our motives gives us away!
Here’s a headline “Jackson & Prince’s new songs ‘Billie Jean’s knocking on my door’ or ‘1975 (ala 1999).’”
Gosh darn,, MJ going to the Kingdom Hall! Kingdom Halls are THE place for sexual predators. Need two witnesses to be guilty, ya know. The elders will tell the kid’s parent(s) not to go to the police. And years later, the Society will stand in front of a New Hampshire Supreme Court and swear: 1) being a JW is not mandatory, 2) the parent(s) should not have listened to the elder’s advice, and 3) that the elders were not ministers and had no authority to counsel a parent not go to the police. The Court, not knowing the JW culture, will agree…yeah, the parent’s best choice was to go against Jehovah’s organization and report the abuse themselves…therefore, no lawsuit against the Society for its child molestation mongering policies….you stupid parent. The dissent would have allowed a lawsuit…and those who are legal history buffs know “today’s dissent becomes tomorrow’s holding.” So, there is hope.
In short, MJ may have found his earthly paradise!
FOX NEWS,
anyone associated with the fox should feel ashamed of themselves, if that is they call themself a REAL journalist.
Diffacult isn’t it! We were taught to believe one way and then something comes up that changes the concept. I went through the blood issue, BIG TIME!
Doctors were comming into my room several times a day telling me I was going to die if I didn’t get a transfussion. At one point they came in and told me to make all my arrangements and see who it was I wanted to see, because I had started hemorrhaging and that I was going to be taken into emergency surgery and that they didn’t believe I would survive. Talk about putting your faith in Jehovah. Well, here I am today, H.I.V. free along with other known killers people contract from blood transfussions.
There are things that bother me as well regarding some of the actions by the W.T.B.S. but I know of no other religious orginazation that is attempting to adhear as closly as they can to the scriptures that the Witnesses.
Keep your love for our creators held close to your heart,
Well I’m right with you Michael cause I go to the Kingdom Hall in Enfield,NC close to Halifax County but we need to re-build our cause ours is old and is almost tour down from the top so Michael we Jehovah’s Witnees in Enifled,NC need a new Kingdom Hall build.
Dean,
“You really need to spend sometime with the Jehovah’s witnesses” Was that a joke? We were there for 10, 20, 30 and 40 years most of us, and what a waste of time it was! Apparently, you are not a baptized witness but you know better than we do. That being the case why not become a witness yourself if you like it so much??? We have the experience, but you do not since as you claim you are not a witness. Therefore, you are the one who needs experience before you put things in writing, you Canadian thing.
You really need to spend sometime with the Jehovahs witnesses. You are way off with your facts just like most are in this world. But hey thats prophecy! I am not even a baptized witness and I know they are the ones doing the work of true Christians. As far as, money it is all voluntary contributions,unlike the religions you probably serve. You really need to experience before you put things down in writing. Remember God is watching all of us. So you better be sure.
So….quit being a Witness and go into the world where things are much better and people really do care about you and where nobody want’s to take advantage of you… Duh!!! Even if the society does things that demonstrates a poor judgement or that maybe isn’t what Jehovah really wants…just wait…leave it up to Jehovah…Name me any relegion that is so close to the truth as Jehovah’s Winesses….There isn’t….. If you choose not to be a member…than don’t be a member…live and let live….have respect for those who want to be and who are happy…and even if the don’t want to have contact with you…let it be…… But don’t make bitter remarks to hide you real motives…..have you got anything better to offer the humanity??
Building Programme: Our congregation was growing and it was decided we should split and build a New Kingdom Hall. Since we did not have the funds, we borrow money from the Society that eventually was paid back with INTEREST, after about 5 years the kingdom hall was all paid up. I came to realize the kingdom hall was not ours. The deed belongs to the society. Some things here went wrong. 1) We borrowed money (from the society) that was paid with interest, Apparently the bible clearly states that no interest should be charged!———- Deut. 23:19 “You must not make your brother pay interest, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything on which one may claim interest. 20 You may make a foreigner pay interest, but your brother you must not make pay interest; in order that Jehovah your God may bless you in every undertaking of yours on the land to which you are going so as to take possession of it.”———– The bible is very specific that brothers should not be charged interest. 2) After, the kingdom hall was all paid we turned around and gave them the title of the kingdom hall. That is a very profitable business! Example: you need to build a house. You borrow money from me, which you pay with interest. After the house is all paid up, you turn around and give me the title of the house. That is what I call a business.
You will hear stories how in Africa they do not have kingdom halls so therefore they assemble outside under trees. Yet, we build expensive halls that are worth over a million dollars. Why, I ask? How much you think it would cost the Society to build a kingdom hall in Africa. One million? One hundred thousand? Ten thousand? Three thousand? Why is that they prefer to have buildings in rich countries vs poor countries?
It is clear! They do not pay for it and get to be the owners. Can anyone imagine the worth in assets world wide??
George….
You Wrote” It’s unfortunate that in this age and time people like Floyd Wiebe still considers JWs a cult.”
Cults Are High Control Groups. So One Has To Ask,”Is The Jehovah Witness Religion A High Control Group?”
Here Is The Main Evidence On It. I Write It All The Time And It Gets Ignored All The Time. So Here It Goes Again.
Once The Watchtower Bible And Tract Society™ Made A Mandate That Their Members Could Not Receive Vaccinations. If A Member Said I Do Not Agree And Received Vaccinations OR Gave Their Young Children Vaccinations They Would Be Disfellowshipped And Loose Their Entire Family.
Once Disfellowshipped Not Even Your Family Can So Much As Take A Meal With You If You Go Against The Watchtower™.
SOOOOOOooo, Jehovah’s Witnesses Didn’t Take Vaccinations And Some Died. Even CHILDREN Died.
Then One Day The Watchtower Society Says They Have New Light™ And So Now Jehovah’s’ People May In Good Conscience Take Vaccinations.
So, Then, The People AND Children Who Died Not Taking Vaccinations….Who Did They Die For? Did They Die For Jehovah? Or For The Watchtower Bible And Tract Corporation™? Did The Bible Say Not To Take Vaccinations? Or Was It Just A Dogmatic Mandate?
Although There Were Other Health Mandates I Will Skip Them And Go To Another Biggie. Organ Transplants.
At One Time The Watchtower Society™ Said No Organ Transplants For Their Members.
To Receive Life Saving Organ Transplants Was Considered Cannibalism By The Slave Class™.
If A Jehovah’s Witness Received An Organ Trans Plant Or Allowed Their CHILD To Receive A Life Saving Organ Transplant They Were Disfellowshipped. Shunned. Loosing All Family,Friends,And A Voice In The Congregation.
If A Jehovah’s Witness Questioned The Dogmatic Doctrine Of No Organ Transplants They Were Accused Of “Running Ahead Of Jehovah’s Organization”. Apostasy!
Then New Light™ Comes From The Slave Class.
Jehovah’s People Can Now Receive Organ Transplants.
Many Jehovah’s Witnesses Died Including CHILDREN.
Did The Bible Say Not To Receive Life Saving Organ Transplants? Or Was It Just A Dogmatic Mandate?
Now I Will Go To Another Biggie Blood.
Not Whole Blood Just Fractions. Jehovah’s Witnesses Latest Medical Mandate Is No Blood.
Science Develops New Treatment For Hemophiliacs Using Blood Fractions.
Many Jehovah’s Witnesses Hemophiliacs And Parents Of Children Who Are Hemophiliacs Whose Doctors Have Told Them About This New Treatment Call Bethel.
The Watchtower Society™ Says No Blood Fractions.
Even Just A Part Of The Blood Is Still Blood. It Must Be Poured Out Onto The Ground.
Many Die. Many CHILDREN Die.
One Day The Slave Class™ Says They Have New Light™.
Jehovah’s Witnesses May Now Receive Blood Fractions.
Did The Bible Say Not To Receive Life Saving Blood Fractions? To Not Allow Your Children To Receive Life Saving Blood Fractions? Did These Men, Women, And CHILDREN, Die For Jehovah? Or Did They Die For The Watchtower™?
What Would Have Happened In Any Of These Medical Mandated Cases Had The Individual Jehovah’s Witness Said,” I Am Sorry But, I Must Save My Life That IS A Gift From God. I Believe The Watchtower Bible And Tract Society™ Is Wrong On This Point.”
The Consequence For Disobedience To The Watchtower Even For Nobel Causes Is Disfellowshipment.
The Loss Of Your World As You Know It. The Loss Of Your Family, Friends, And Support At The Kingdom Hall AND You Feel Are Made To Feel The Loss Of Your GOD.
You Feel And Are Made To Feel As If You Are Worse Then Dead.
Now Even Parents Allowed Their Children To Die (Be Killed) By Dogmatic Medical Mandate.
So Is This A High Control Group? You Answer This For Yourself.
Use YOUR God Given Conscience. It Is Yours. It Is A Gift. Nothing God Gives Is Broken No Matter What You Have Been Taught. You Do Not Need Any Man To Tell You What To Do On Any Righteous Matter.God Is Taking Care Of You.Listen To The Still Small Voice Of Our Heavenly Father’s Holy Spirit.
I Did Not Touch The Subject Of Whole Blood This Time,Because You Must Also Answer This For Yourself. But Look At The Record Of The Watchtower Bible And Tract Society™. They Have Been Deadly Wrong Too Many Times.
Do You Wish To Take The Blue Pill Or The Red?
http://www.whysanity.net/monos/matrix3.html
Many Blessings,
Kitty Pride
I am currently a resident of Nigeria….i am so glad Mj can still finds it somewhere in his heart to remeber Jehovah…May God help him to come back to the way that truely leads to entanal life….we all are striving hard to be remembered in the great day of Jehovah as his true worshippers!!May we all continue to remember our grand creator in the days of our youthful vigor…..I luv you so much JEHOVAH…BLESSED BE YOUR NAME FOREVER.. AMEN
It’s unfortunate that in this age and time people like Floyd Wiebe still considers JWs a cult. He needs to wash off his ignorance by seeking correct information about the Witnesses. The Kingdom hall is open to all but not who attend is a witness. The fact that MJ was there does not make him one. However, if he truly wants to associate he is welcome provided he is prepared to live a clean life, one that is in harmony with Bible principles.
I think JEHOVAH God will in is infinite mercy forgive us all sin, if we forgive others who sin against us.Let take example from manneseh with all the atrocity he commited.Gods word alert us that BAD ASSOCIATION spoilt good habit.The association could be friends,companion like music,books,etc.All I could said is that where someone go wrong he orshe should make amends,and then put faith in God provision of ransome sacriioce.Let remmember Isaiah prophet talk about sin being red as crimson and God making IT white as snow.
I have not really followed his career in recent years or his trials and so forth… as for a comment made earlier about he would have to give up his career if he were reunited with the witnesses.. I am not sure that is true. There have been very succesful preformers who have also been good christian witnesses…such as George Benson. If he is attempting to come back in I hope he realizes how hard it is. It is hard for those of us who are disfellowshipped to even get a meeting with the brothers to discuss being reinstated…sometimes having to ask in written form severl several times before they will meet with us. It is indeed a hard struggle and in my mind against the story of the prodical son in the Bible. The Bible says when the erring son returned his father ran to welcome him back… the brothers in the Kingdom Hall unfortunatley are not as forgiving and welcoming…. I wish michael jackson the best though and hope people will remember that Jehovah God remembers our sin no more, once we have repented… we would do well to do the same, mary
conspiracies theories/cover ups..people hiding secret documents..organisations with hidden agendas…SOUNDS LIKE AMERICA;-)
There is a particular article that once bublished that MJ disguises himself to particpate in the magazine distribution. well if such is the truth about him, it therefore means he still love the truth and always wants to belong. So he should endeavour to make the truth his own b’cos the truth is the best way of living.
let him put pride and shame apart b’cos Jehovah loves those lowly in heart, yes if he sincerely repent Jehovah will surly forgive him. It is better for him to do that now b’cos now is the time.
Jehovah Knows the heart of all men. We all know that MJ has created a lot of sins which are not actually accpetable to God, including his Fame…….Well, If Mj really knows the truth about Jehovah, he must do his best to repent and he should give up his career. We should remember that”Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be save.” We especially need to pray if we have committed a serious sin. At such times we should beg for Jehovah’s mercy and forgiveness. If we confess our sins to him and do our very best not to repeat them, God is “ready to forgive.”—Psalm 86:5; Proverbs 28:13. (Base on the brochure: What does god require of us)
I am hoping that mj should realized the sins he have done…….
Jehovah is loving those people who sincerely loving Him……. “God is Love”1 john 4:8
Michael is not a 5 year old lillte boy ….
Really Thought He Was “Peter Pan”.
Seriously People Of All Ages Do Things To Make Their Parents Happy And Comfort Them
If MJ Was Interested In “The Truth”™ He Would Be Right There Front And Center.
I Didn’t Go To Kingdom Hall With Him But One Of My Best Friends Did And He Was A Very Little Publisher When He Really Was A Little Boy. My Understanding Is He Even “Witnessed” At School. He Would Bring His Bible Tracts And Everything.
If He Felt The Place To Get Close To Jehovah Our Heavenly Father Was At The Kingdom Hall With His Back Ground He’d Be There.
Michael is not a 5 year old lillte boy he knows JW will bring comfort. He has been convinced on his own that without Jehovah (Heavenly Father) in his life, all those billions,fame, etc.. will not bring true and complete happiness. He made the correct decision..
I Personally Think MJ Just Went To The Kingdom Hall To Give His Mother Comfort During This Time. I Am Sure She Never Lets Up That It Is “The Truth”™ And That He Needs To Turn Back To Jehovah.
I Don’t Think It Has Anything To Do With That He Feels The Kingdom Hall Is Where “The Truth”™ Is.
As For The Person Who Commented That MJ Is On The Pedophile List Up At Watchtower™ Headcounters. I’d Be Surprised. Someone Would Have Sued MJ By Now For What He Did To Them While He Was An “Unbaptised Publisher Of Jehovah Witness.
Arigatou
Kitty_Pride
Well, it’s good to see that deep down in his heart, he knows the truth.
It is the inly way that will set him free…as the Bible say, the truth will set you free….good on him.
Only those idiots will submit rude comments such as the above.
Have a nice day
What the F * * K Seriously. What the F * *k.