Watchtower Society settles sexual abuse cases to prevent victims from speaking out
Sixteen sexual abuse victims have settled nine lawsuits in which they said they were sexually abused as children by Jehovah’s Witnesses members and leaders.
Settlements were reached in late February and early March, according to court records obtained by Bill Bowen of SilentLambs.org. Now with video of press conference! Fourteen of the cases were filed in California; the others were in Oregon and Texas.
“For once, we have the church stepping up to the plate and having to settle with these victims,” said Bill Bowen, founder of SilentLambs.org. “To me, it’s a vindication for the abuse survivors.”
Jehovah’s Witnesses Silentlambs Press Conference on Channel 4
(article continues below)
Mario Moreno, the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ associate general counsel, confirmed that nine lawsuits involving a total of 16 plaintiffs had been settled. When asked the total amount of the settlements, he said, “I’m not able to comment on any of the specifics,” citing “a confidentiality agreement.”
Bowen called that agreement a “bittersweet” outcome. “Even though they’re vindicated and they’re going to be compensated … they can’t tell anybody about it,” he said. Even so, Bowen considered this a significant legal victory for the plaintiffs. “It’s the largest group of people that they have settled with – as far as child abuse is concerned – at one time,” he said. Moreno would only say that “it certainly is unusual for us to have a number of cases.”
In a brief statement, the religious body said: “We are pleased to see this matter resolved.” The statement “regarding January-February 2007 settlement of child abuse cases” cites the New Testament book of Romans about hating “what is wicked” and says child abuse falls in that category.
“As an organization, we will continually strive to educate families and congregations with sound Scriptural teachings that they can use to protect their children from child molesters,” the statement said. “And we will continue to do our utmost to protect children from this horrible crime and sin.”
SilentLambs.org has criticized the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ policy on abuse. If the accused denies the charge, two credible witnesses are required to establish guilt due to literal application of such Bible verses as Deuteronomy 19:15 (”only on the evidence of two witnesses, or of three witnesses, shall a charge be sustained”). If two witnesses are lacking, the accused is deemed innocent, charges remain confidential and parents who warn others are subject to disfellowshipping for slander.
Since establishing SilentLambs.org in 2001, Bowen says about 7,000 people who claim they were abused have contacted his support group.
Sources:
SilentLambs.org
Beliefnet
Associated Press
to Shawn,
well I’d also suggest giving a glance to these websites:
‘the skeptics annotated bible’ and
’set free from jesus’
and the book ‘the ten commandments’ by Joseph Lewis which you also find in the net.
but if you are really into blood & gore, sadims & masochism, intolerance & injustice, fanaticism & racism, violence & torture, persecution & sexism, deception & sexual depravity of the most wanton of kinds, then you gotta turn to the bible.
Otto and Marcus,
Thanks for taking the time to write some thoughts, I appreciate your candid and straight forward approach to what you think and believe most of all. A lot of it I agree with and I have a feeling you might be a little more accepting and compromising than the Almighty Flock of Sheep that just happen to know EVERYTHING that disagrees with them is an absolute lie. In fact when Jeckle and Hyde (the two different people I was “friends” with) found out I was “browsing” the internet and read a couple of message boards, she went ballistic saying that I would never learn anything except lies from a bunch of hate mongrels and that if I wanted to learn any TRUTH that I should ask her or another witness that has researched EVERYTHING for years like she has. I explained to her that many of them never even said anything bad about the brothers and sisters they had known, and that they just wish they were able to still talk to them, and then I asked her how she could even label ANYTHING a lie without even reading what was said first, and her response completely blew me away,… Well if you knew the TRUTH you would know how I am able to know they are lies, but you have no clue what the TRUTH is so you wouldn’t know they are lies, or understand how I am able to know they are, funny how that works huh!!!!
All I could even get out was “It sure is!!!!” There were a couple of other comments she had made that used the same kind of reasoning and made just as little sense as that one did, maybe I’ll try and find a couple she had written in some of our chats. They leave me speechless everytime I read them
Take care
Markus,
I’m here and just observing all the debate from my office desk. I guess your emails went into my spam folder. Sorry I missed them. I took to heart something that someone wrote awhile back. If I cannot contribute something that will make a difference then why get involved again? Nothing I have said has made much of a difference so maybe a cynical approach is in order. I just hope that if anyone logs on to the website, they will read the debate that is in each of the topics from the beginning. There is a lot of good stuff there. I have learned a lot and appreciate all the input from each of you. Sometimes things got a little rough to deal with but through it all I have grown from the exchange. Though my path is opposite from yours, I still respect your choice but PLEASE “fundies”, that’s not what many of us are.
to Markus,
your comment is as dismaying as real and true. My personal experience is a as much shocking as yours as you must have read in my posts. I would disagree though on the ‘old senile men’ that wrote the bible. Their evil minds were actually diabolically cunning, not impaiered at all, be this by age or any other factor.
for SHAWN:
I really appreciate your feelings. But you imply that the jesus the christo scarecrow ‘fulfiller’ of the repugnant old testament which (note the pronoun) is also the self-appointed son of the yhwh sewer ain’t better than the whole Towers of All Terrors.
If you got time to burn read the book to ascertain for yourself.
yhwh and jesus the christo, the two cloaca-like characters invented by the bible writers, are the puppets thru which the masters of the world/ventriloquists have carried out all the fine works eclipsing the devil in his best days.
Hello,
I’ve been reading as many of these posts as I have been able to, and at least I know that what I experierenced wasn’t just “ME” trying to cause fights and disagree and “you just don’t want to know the TRUTH”. I was accussed of plotting and planning to do so many immorral and sinful acts just because I was trying to spend time with a JW woman that I had dated 13 years prior, and now had gotten divorced and started chatting with me online. I won’t even go into all the details, but after 3 months of a fantasy sample of what things could be like, and what I thought she was really like, reality set in when she wasn’t able to “HIDE” our relationship anymore from her congregation. Wow, talk about night and day. We got along beyond anything expected or thought possible whenever we were with each other, and both said that we knew that God had guided us back together and that we were meant to be with each other. Her two kids would even start to cry whenever I would have to leave because we got along so well. Then suddenly when I asked to marry me she said yes, “BUT THERE ARE THINGS THAT HAVE TO BE DONE FIRST” “you need to start studying with some witnesses over there (I’m in AZ she is in TX) so you can get baptized” Well, I know that anyone that knows this routine knows what the inevitable is if i wasn’t willing to just ACCEPT ALL of the self-proclaimed beliefs and righteousness of this Organization “That Jehovah is clearly guiding”. What a crock of s…!!!! I’ll tell you what, I will never EVER be part of ANYTHING that would influence me to treat another person the way she did me just because I did not go along with all her beliefs, that she didn’t even go by for the 3 months prior to that, but now I had to change to be with her!!! And because I don’t change, after another 3 months of me trying to come to some type of mutual compromise, I get,…. “DON’T ATTEMPT TO CONTACT ME AGAIN”. Now every single one of you witnesses explain to me where that is Love, caring, or compassion in any way. If you need more details no problem, if you need proof, no problem, I’ve got tons of emails and chats that show exactly what each of us said for almost every day except when we were actually with each other, and it is so obvious what flicked the switch and why, and what was said in the attempts to discuss and understand the sudden change.
What it all came down to is her congregation had more control over her than her own feelings or the feelings of her kids. What saddens me the most, and the part I have not been able to get past is how her kids cried and begged their mom to let me be their Daddy!!! I gotta stop there before I get too upset again.
I’m glad I finally wrote something down at least. I know I’m not the only one that has been hurt by this Clan, and mine wasn’t nearly as damaging as some I’ve read, and to all those people I just want to say I at least know some of the hurt they feel and all the other ten billion feelings that were brought out by this Tribe of Jehovah, but I know none of it was from God or was imatating what Jesus would have done.
dear Theresa,
nothing remarkable has happened. No other behavior can be expected from such a loathsome rabble of monsters.
The Towers of All Terrors (aka watch tower society) and their useless grunts/acolytes should all be referred to the Nuremberg trials of the 21th century.
Sadly though, this ain’t gonna happen. It seem that all major governments have long since been bamboozled by such a terrorist cult’s slick attorneys and mesmerized by the “delightful, correct words of truth covering every aspect of life” you find on every page of the watchtower litera-trash.
I WAS BROUGHT UP AS A JEHOVAHS WITNESS UNTIL THE AGE OF 13. MY MEMORYS ARE NOT GOOD. I FIND IT HARD TO BELIVE THAT PEOPLE GET EXPELLED FOR ADULTERY AND LESSER REASONS . BUT IF YOU ABUSE A CHILD YOU CAN STILL BE ENBRACED BY THIS RELIGION. I STILL HAVE MY BELIFES . BUT I WOULD NOT SUBJECT MY OWN CHILDREN TO THE DANGERS WITHIN THIS RELIGION. WHAT HAS HAPPENED?
to knell,
you feel you’re a child of non-existing diablo and that you have to resist the rotten inclinations of non-existent poor devil?
good for you.
Hi Markus,
Good reply that of yours to yet another religious professional. Funny how they know how insanely cruel is their un-god whilst trying to talk others into believing quite the opposite…$$$ rings any bell?
However, infants are attracted by round shapes more than other types of geometrical patterns. Also they are more attracted more by normal facial expressions than by facial features/parts displayed at random.
This means that we do not even know if flowers are actually beautiful because our neuronal circuitries were designed to appreciate/show preference to some patterns over others.
Not to mention that beauty standards for adults are massively influenced by social constructs, fads, trends, etc.
In other words when religious professional use the beauty of creation tack it’s an insult to people’s intelligence and an unacceptable patronizing attitude.
I think that you and most people here will find the site below really interesting.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
Interesting day today it must be said,
A good friend of mine a Catholic decided to renew his marriage vows, a ridiculous notion in my opinion, however I was invited as the best man, equally ridiculous as I was under the impression ‘best man’ was only for weddings.
To cut a long story a bit shorter my friend introduced me to the priest a reverend ‘Anthony’ (heck of a nice fellow), as Markus his ‘best friend’, and an Atheist.
“Ah” Anthony said, “I also was an Atheist once”. I was under the mistaken notion it would end there.
After a short ceremony, and glass or two of wine, the good reverend somehow snuck up between me and the pretty girl I was trying to impress. “So Markus you do not believe, how can I help?” I simply replied wanting to get this over soon, that I had read the Bible and wanted nothing to do with it.
The good reverend then started the unassailable argument as to our origin, how beautiful are the flowers, the sunsets, the oceans filled with life, designed only for us.
I answered that this was indeed beautiful, for there is no doubting these things.
At this point our good reverend must have felt quite confident, as he invited me to attend his sermon (the next day) to give a short speech and after this fiasco he would then shoot me down in flames, and thus gain good points for his congregation. (at least this is how I understood matters).
I told the good reverend in no uncertain terms, I would be willing to do this as long as we had a agenda, which I would prescribe.
Off the top of my head it went as follows:
How a good god would kill millions of innocents in the great deluge, at Sodom and Gomorrah, how our good god commanded the bashing in of heads of infants, how 6 million people were mercilessly tortured (to the neo nazi supporters: working in sub-zero temperatures with little or no clothing is indicative of torture), and murdered, how he as a man of cloth would hold the bones of a 5 year old and explain to the parents the will of a all knowing merciful god. How many more people die today because of a mosquito he created.
I told him it would be my pleasure to explain this to him and his congregation as best I could.
As I drove away, I noticed him watching my departure out of the corner of his eye, I waved and no wave was forthcoming. My claim to fame died immediately, I only wish the good reverend would chuck his cushy job as savior of souls and get a real job.
Cheers,
Markus
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In the Oregon Case (#06C15281) Paul Lipscomb is the Judge who approved the negotiated settlement between Plaintiff and defendant Watchtower. Anyway, at his relection page* includes persons of achievement then, there are the First Citizens who seem to be the weaker ones of whom, a Sue Miller is/was part of Marion County Department of Children and Families*. It may be worth it to find out if these person(s) know of Judge lipscombs approval of the negotiated settlement which evidently bars Plaintiff from telling anyone about it and whether they would like to make a comment.
Walt M. Beglau, District Attorney* who endorsed Judge Lipscomb Re-elect made a statement which may be incompatible with what the Judge did in this case: “I believe that everyone should be held accountable. Justice must always be public, accessible and fair. Everyone is entitled to be treated with dignity and respect.”
*http://www.sos.state.or.us/elections/may162006/guide/np/lipsc_p.html
*http://www.co.marion.or.us/CFC/
* http://www.co.marion.or.us/DA/
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AMENDMENT to my own reply above.
women are BITTER (not ‘better’) THAN DEATH by the inspirer of the words attributed to Salomon.
A classical unconscious Freudian slip on my part due to my extremely positive bias towards women.
to patricia,
again like most joioihaoaovauuuh witlesses you’re lying to yourself, cuckolding your great ungod by eating at the table of demons (like the Towers of All Terrors enjoy labeling sites like this), and embarrassing all of us with a post that makes me doubt you’re an actual human being but only a semi-human looking litera-trash-pushing automaton.
That’s why your BS aren’t worth any reply or analysis.
Good luck.
.
One would like to think that the intentions of the law entity(s) and the Court(s) were towards protecting defendant(s) spouse and/or offspring although, the file(s) are open for public inspection and not sealed leaving tracks that could compromise safety.
.
too many children have been sexually molested by church officials, no matter what religion….sad to say that these men who claim to love God could do such things…they are those wolves amongst the sheep! I, as a witness in California know that the wicked one is to be removed!!! disfellowshipped…it is suppose to be up to the individual to press charges in such circumstances because the abuser is no longer acting as one of God’s people & there should be just punishment…and as far as 2-3 witnesses stating so…no! not for this…of course it does become a matter of the elders because of the disfellowshipping process & to question the accused…a gag order may have been used to protect family members of the accused, have you thought about that? like the wife who never knew and is in shock heself! or the children of that family! the victims of this horrible crime are always shown a lot of love and encouraged to seek professional help if needed…i have 3 daughters, this thing should not happen but it does, they were taught to be careful of men, even ones we know, by me and through talks given at the kingdom hall…they seek to protect all involved & to remove the wicked one
might be a good idea to look up those passages you claim to refute in both NIV and another modern translation of the Bible. Or read a few websites that provide an alternative view. My experience with atheists seems to be that they practice what the accuse the believers of practicing: they make arguments against the Bible without ever once having looked inside. Yes many people argue against things without being informed, and that is partly life. But if you yourself are going to argue against a system, at least be familiar with the arguments from world-wide perspective. Of course there is hypocrisy in any religion or belief system, I am not defending nor condoning those who say one thing and do another, but it is also worth noting that Christianity and indeed the majority of religious beliefs are practiced quite differently than the USA model. So look internationally, read literature from both sides of each argument and then make your decision. If that is what you have done, well, all the best I suppose. And also remember that sometimes the core Christian doctrines are able to stand alone apart from the practices of the followers, though of course they actions and practices form a key part. Is it possible though that the teachings are true but the members misinterpret them? Or simply ignore them?
On another note, does this discussion really belong on this forum anyway?
Good luck.
.
It would be interesting to know if the defence counicl under the skilfull direction of the governingbody had doubts whether palcing a wall between Plaintiff(s) and the Public was the right thing to do.
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Hey Fundies
I picked this up on Mark Smith’s website. It is a few rules on how to act when one is convinced they are saved, and the rest of mankind are doomed, because they fail or failed to live in a neighborhood with lush gardens and pretty white picket fences and a “True Church of Christ” around the corner. I found this description of the fundamentalist Christian rather amusing because as with most humour, it is always better when it has a ring of truth to it:
When a sermon is being attended, learn to respond to everything said with the word ‘Amen’. Learn to elongate this, i.e., Ameeeeeen or Arrrrrmen. So if someone says ‘The pastor’s sermon was very spiritual wasn’t it?’, or ‘The church congregation is becoming larger’, you reply ‘Aaaameeeen!’, or ‘Amennnnnnnn!’. The longer the better.
If you want to really appear as a truly spiritual fundy, just respond to absolutely everything said with an ‘Amen’, e.g., even if you are told ‘My mother has just been violently murdered’, you simply reply ‘Ammmmmen!’. It doesn’t matter in what context it is said, because virtually everything said by a fundy is meaningless anyway. You should also learn to say this throughout the religious service, particularly at the end of each sentence uttered by the pastor. Some people may find it mildly annoying but that is because they are just unspiritual. After some practice (six weeks is recommended), you can start using other words/phrases, e.g., ‘Hallelujah’ or ‘Lordy, Lordy’ or ‘Sweet Jesus’. These allow a considerable amount of flexibility. For example ‘Sweet Jeeeeeezuuuuusssss!’ or ‘Halleluuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuujah’.
If you want to make youself look like a ’super-spiritual fundy’, then wait for the quietest time during the whole service and then suddenly shriek at the top of your voice ‘O yes, Lordy Lordy, How great is your name!’ O Lordy, Lordy, Lordy, Yes! Yes! Yes!’; then continue to repeat ‘O yes Lord! Jezuuuuusss!’ over and over again but continually make this quieter until it is barely audible. This makes it appear as if you’ve just been overpowered by the Spirit (who caused the loud shriek) and has now departed having made his presence known to the congregation through you personally because you are so spiritual; the barely-audible mumbling is the after-effect of God personally using you to declare his will to his elect.
Also learn how to contort your face: when a preacher says ‘The Spirit is here! He is moving amongst you’, make yourself look as if you are suffering from severe chronic constipation. Screw up your face and twist your mouth up into your nose. If you really want to look as something is happening to you, bury your face in your hands and while covered from view, slap some black mascara on your eyes so you look as if your eyes are disappearing into your skull (this is caused by the Spirit’s pressure). Learn to move your arms about while praying or singing; pretend you are ‘treading water’ in a swimming pool except that the leg movements are not required. However if you want to include the leg movements as well, then go ahead as this will make you look even stranger and therefore more ’spiritual’ to your fellow-fundies.
Learn certain parts of the Bible by heart; you will discover that many Christians who have Bibles the size of a large wall safe are actually very ignorant of the contents. Remember to ignore the many bits that do not fit in with fundamentalism and just concentrate on writings such as John or Romans. Under no circumstances, ever, read James with its emphasis on ‘works’. When you open your Bible during the pastor’s rambling sermon, make sure everyone around you sees masses of coloured pen notations and underlining on the open pages of your Bible. You will then be deemed an eminent Bible scholar able to discuss anything related to the faith, no matter how little you actually know. Practice denouncing world-famous atheist philosophers/theologians; while they may have had decades of academic learning and you are barely able to read a comic, this should not deter you from arguing against them because after all, they are all demon-led hellfire-bound SOBs.
Make sure you only ever read fundy books, i.e., the ones that insist that the Gospel of John was actually written by the apostle John, and that form criticism, source criticism and redaction criticism are all the devil’s work in the last days. Go for those books that believe the world was created in 4004 BC; read up a few cheap fundy booklets on the subject and then speak on the subject as if you are a renowned scholar who has researched the subject all your life.
Remember: only buy books written by fundies with degrees or doctorates given by fundy Bible Colleges. Quote fundy writers as if they are academics respected by thinkers of all differing opinions even though outside fundamentalism no one has even heard of them.
When your ignorance of the subject or theological error is revealed by an atheist or your argument is demolished by an unbeliever because you didn’t both to scrutinize what you were claiming to know so much about, never – ever – admit that you are wrong. Just walk away and start arguing with someone else even though you have just been shown to be in error. Being wrong does not matter at all.
Learn to make fantastic sweeping statements even though there is no evidence whatsoever and/or they are clearly incorrect, e.g., ‘there is irrefutable historical evidence for Jesus’ existence’, or ‘all renowned scientists agree that Genesis 1 is absolutely accurate’, or ‘the Bible is consistent throughout’. Your fundy colleagues will of course be impressed as fundies always accept anything said by other fundies at face value without any verification whatsoever.
When non-fundies challenge you and ask for the source of these assertions, just ignore them. Anyone who disagrees with you is going to burn in hellfire for ever anyway so you need not be bothered when they show you that your faith is complete and utter nonsense. Learn the fundy language. Certain words and phrases are used repeatedly, e.g., ‘Lord’, ‘Spirit’, ‘Praise the lord’, ‘Praise him’, ‘Bless his name’, ‘Glory’, ‘Glorify his name’, ‘witness’, ‘testimony’, ’saved’, ‘redeemed’, etc. Saying the term ‘Praise him!’ very quickly in one short breath, and repeatedly, after every sentence spoken by another fundy can make you look really very spiritual. This appearance will be further enhanced if while saying this, you always roll your head around as if your neck is broken, and make your eyes appear as if you have just downed four bottles of whisky or gin.
Use completely absurd statements such as ‘The Lord is indeed winning lost souls in [state area]‘. Learn to call all other male fundies ‘Bro’ (for ‘Brother’) and all female fundies ‘Sister’ (who are of course subject to you if you are a male). Remember you need to ay ‘Ammennnnnnn’ at least one hundred times a day.
Develop the ‘fundy’ look which is either serious and deep in thought (because you are directly communing with God), or with a silly half-smirk on your face (because you are so happy that Jesus died for you – yes, personally). Most important of all, develop the ‘glazed’ look in your eyes, most frequently found in charismatics and wall-climbers.
Even though you believe the world is evil and in the grip of the devil, and the rapture and the final Judgement are only a few years away at most, don’t let this affect the way you manage your finances and lifestyle.
Continue to have children, purchase large properties, long-term stocks and 30-year life insurance policies. As a fundy you need to learn how to be a complete and total hypocrite.
Always be politically right-wing as leftwing politicians, liberals, pinkos, etc., are actually the devil’s disciples. Always vote for the most right-wing politician who is standing for election. Even though the New Testament teaches the worthlessness of the physical world and material wealth, ignore this and become involved in the world.
Campaign for your local ultra-right wing candidate and defend your action by pointing out that if Jesus was here then he would vote for this candidate.
Stress the importance of ‘the family life’: ignore all the Biblical references that teach Christians should desert and/or hate their families, that Jesus was single, Paul taught celibacy, and the redeemed are said to be virgins. Ignore all of this and simply rewrite the Bible to suit your way of thinking: this is how it all works! Be arrogant! Be intolerant! Forget all the Biblical nonsense about humility – you are one of ‘the little flock’, one of the few who has been called; remember, you were handpicked (’elected’) by God Almighty himself – yes, personally – before the world was even created!
Be pompous – be really vain. Moreover, because of this you are justified in talking about God as if he’s personally living in your front room and constantly talking to you. Make frequent references to ‘The Lord said to me…’ and ‘In prayer the Lord spake to me saying….’. Make it seem as if you are the only one that he ever speaks to, this is much more convincing when relating what God has said to you if you have the Almighty speaking in 1611 King James English. Do not say ‘God said to me ‘I am talking to you in all genuineness…”, but ‘God said: ‘I speaketh unto you, yeah verily…”. Remember: the God of fundamentalism is caught in a time-warp and always speaks as if he is a demented 17th century Puritan.
Never mind the well learned atheist, who thinks your actions are ridiculous and remember the above peformances may even land you that cute blond that is always sitting in the third row.
Cheers,
Markus
since it seems that god-whomever-that-is has taken a long vacation (or just waiting for somebody to do something useful in this regard)…
I appeal
to the Congress of the United States of America to investigate the watchtower society’s policy of the “two witnesses” in paedophile cases that is a gross and unacceptable violation of all moral and ethical laws religious or civil.
Since the watchtower society’s ‘pay attention’ secret book clearly and unequivocally states that in case of child abuse these MUST NOT be reported to state authorities but to the attorneys of said publishing house (watchtower society) the US Goverment is hereby prayed to see into this situation too.
I have already sent emails to the White House and I hope that more appeals might work for the good of future potential victims.
The watchtower society criminal procedure in case of sexual child abuse do constitute a vile act of TERRORISM against innocent children.
ok augusto,
I see that your spanish or whatever is improving. what about your English?
To Fair,
Oh…it only happens in China and the middle east. Interesting…so it doesn’t happen in places like the congregation in Norway Upper Michigan. And it must have been a dream when my sister came forward against her abuser and was called a liar because of the “two witness” rule (sadly I had repressed the memories of the abuse until years later but that still would have only made 1 witness). Gee, thank you for making that clear now. Now if they followed “all the laws of the land” like they preach then the elders (other than the father of the abuser) would have referred the matter to the local police for a thorough investigation instead of remaining silent and according to the law becoming party to the abuse itself. Then maybe he would have been stopped and wouldn’t have continued to abuse children and women years later.
ok yo solo no voy a decir nada esto es asi o crees o no es ahi donde rradica la diferencia de cerrrar tus ojos y vivir dentro de adaptarse en este mundo ojala yo no ubiera entrado a esta pagina que divulga lo que divulga y para que quien sabe y no me interesa quisiera acer lo que4 tengo que acer en ves de estar viendo todo este tipo detonterias que si ace que si no ace amemonos unos a otros dijo el señor jesucristo dios los vendiga a todos solo al señor le pertenece el juicio
to the jehovah’s witless Fair:
ok bro now instead of believing non-JW articles I’ll believe watchtower.
I see that you ain’t an elder otherwise you’d've known the real paedophile policy by the watchtower. Their policy is criminal, but who cares right?
I see that you intelligence is supreme I feel like kneeling down and worship you for your astonishing display of wisdom… you don’t know that the wikipedia article is 100% of watchtower make, do you? I guessed as much.
Enjoy your lovey-dovey affiliation with the watchtower. Did it sound sweet or bitter?
So much bitterness in the comments. Instead of believing an article written by a who knows where from journalist, not disclosing dates or details of the trials, the ambiguity posted could definitely provoke critical comments.
Instead, google the real trials where JW”s were involved. From what I found, they consstently win at least 90% of false accusations – this speaks the message – they are innocent. In the 10% of the cases they lose are middle eastern or chinese cases where they are not allowed to preach by law.
I assure you that no criminal is consealed with secrecy. Offenders are excommunicated immediatley, and the congregations remain ‘clean’ of crime, etc. Markcus and alike would be disfellowshipped for swearing for example. The true JW’s who follow the doctrine and live by the Bible deserve admiration. If everyone was like them, the world would be so much closer to paradise.
And, hey, why don’t you go and do some homework as to what they believe in – plenty untainted views are available on websited describing world religions.
http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/Jwitness.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah%27s_witness
and lots more
Hi Markus,
nice to hear you back. I would like to add that your last paragraph does make sense in relation to both social constructivist and neurobiological findings, these last in terms of actual changes in neuronal connections and interconnection deriving from the process of learning.
Dear cheopswaskhufu,
I’m not sure if I read you correctly here as your comment is rather ambiguous.
We choose to live our lives as we see fit, generally we are good folk but for the exception of the occasional murderer and or rapist which has to be said is out of our control, most of us average citizens have a pretty clear conscience.
Along come along the preterits, your Jehovah’s Witness or your Seventh Day Adventist or Mormon even your latter day Jesus saints etc or other guilt burdening folk.
Their favourite quotes are from Revelation and the gospels: Massive earthquakes, pestilence, famine and lawlessness shall abound on the Earth, and then the end will come. The Bible says it, we believe it and therefore pray to out merciful God for forgiveness and the ultimate redemption. The time of the end is near folks, better start praying and giving hard earned cash to the good folk telling us about these things. Jeez talk about cashing in on circumstances.
If you THINK about it, which most bible belt fundies do not, give this a thumb suck:
There has always been over the years millions of people starving, some countries in Africa have been at some time harder hit than others. Starvation has always been something our merciful God has brushed aside, for if this was the sign of the end it should have happened a very long time ago.
Pestilence, especially with the advent of AIDS, comes into the forefront. Only a century or two ago the black plague wiped out one third of all people living in Europe or the known world as it was then, still no end of the world as foretold by the prophets.
Earthquakes: think of San Francisco, Mexico City, Krakatoa, to mention a few, where is the end? still waiting for a bigger one for the end is still imminent.
Nation will rise against nation, we already saw this in WW1+WW2, that was 62 years ago pretty much a generation in anybody’s terms. I remember some JW elder telling me there are more conflicts in the world today (14 years ago) than ever experienced by mankind before; bloody liar he was, then and most likely still is.
Crime is at it’s worst ever. Probably true but what do you expect when the human population is at it’s highest ever, did you really think it would come down?
I wish good intelligent folk would look back, and realise
that most of us were born into a religious culture and it
is in itself was born of the greedy culture of mankind, but seeing as it was embedded into our heads from an early age, it cannot do other than stick, one cannot really blame us for a stupidity that runs in our minds, placed there by our parents which was placed there by their parents and so on.
Cheers.
Markus
sorry guys for the ‘canyon effect’ as you can see had forgotten to sign. tried to terminate the forwarding and then sent it again with my name. it seems it had already gotten thru the system and posted.
to cheopswaskhufu,
you state:
1) “those who sincerly strive to lead a Godly life Jehovah’s Wittness or otherwise, tend to be more righteous and humble than those on the “outside” as they may put it.”
and you state also:
2) “if one looked carefully, and not through a negative distorted lens”
Two worthless quotes froms a person whose education and IQ make it pointless any further reply than this one.
However from my experience as a clinician I see that sometimes pathological daydreamers of such a caliber do some times live better lives than most people who are endowed of some degree of awareness and self-consciousness. Why they live better?
Because they pipe-dream their lives away.
to cheopswaskhufu,
you state:
1) “those who sincerly strive to lead a Godly life Jehovah’s Wittness or otherwise, tend to be more righteous and humble than those on the “outside” as they may put it.”
and you state also:
2) “if one looked carefully, and not through a negative distorted lens”
Two worthless quotes froms a person whose education and IQ make it pointless any further reply than this one.
However from my experience as a clinician I see that sometimes pathological daydreamers of such a caliber do some times live better lives than most people who are endowed of some degree of awareness and self-consciousness. Why they live better?
Because they pipe-dream their lives away.
Alot of hatred disguised as concern.
And bitterness.
Humans are flawed.
Most religions recognize this and preach mercy and forgiveness as far as is possible.
The way of the world is to be vindictive.
Anyway, if one looked carefully, and not through a negative distorted lens, they would see that those who sincerly strive to lead a Godly life Jehovah’s Wittness or otherwise, tend to be more righteous and humble than those on the “outside” as they may put it.
never as degenerate as being a witness of jehovah….
cheers
to the freak above,
whatever pal, you’re in a tad worse predicament than I thought.
My diagnosis then was correct: you belong to a freak-show.
I answered because as a mental clinician I have the duty to help those in need.
But I am terminating your therapy as of now. I’m sorry. I’ll have to defer you to one said freak-shows.
If you have trouble prancing your way to the nearest freak-show call 911.
Any post you’ll send to my person it’s going to be yet another of a long and never-ending howling at the moon.
Good luck.
To All,
Just to qualify that the above comment (ID: 247311, July 18 2007, 9:42 pm)
is not mine but -presumably- by the ‘JDUB’ self-labeled freak.
Do forgive ‘it’.
Good point(s) Otto.
It is ironic that the very matters which the governingbody of Jehovah’s Witnesses knew was happening: sexual assult, rape, and sodomy of little ones yet, they choose to conceal it in secrecy is what has brought them into the Judical arena is the very thing which the Judge of this Court approved between the victims represented by Gregory S. Love and Kimberlee D. Norris* and the Watchtowers legal representatives namely, to conceal the range of payouts and attorney fees or take.
It makes me wonder if this Judge and Love&Norris are not just as morally corrupt as the Watchtower’s council and it’s governingbody of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
* http://www.lovenorrisattorneys.com/accomplish.html
You make a good point(s). I will give the Gov. (Rick Perry) the 1st try and see what kinda response is given. I would guess that he dosen’t even know who the law firm of Love in Norris is. http://www.governor.state.tx.us/
As for the two witness rule mentioned in the starting article, what a joke of an interpretation where the Pharisees resorted to the two witness rule when responding to what Jesus said about himself at
John 8:13 “…You bear witness about yourself, your witness is not true…”
Although, Jesus in quoting the law excluded himself from it nevertheless, stated in no uncertain terms that he could bear witness about himself and be within the purview of their law which the Pharisees then, did not dispute.
John 8:17, 18 “…Also in Your own law it is written, ‘The witness of two men is true.’ I am one that bears witness about myself
You make a good point(s). I will give the Gov. (Rick Perry) the 1st try and see what kinda response is given. I would guess that he dosen’t even know who the law firm of Love in Norris is. http://www.governor.state.tx.us/
As for the two witness rule mentioned in the starting article, what a joke of an interpretation where the Pharisees resorted to the two witness rule when responding to what Jesus said about himself at
John 8:13 “…You bear witness about yourself, your witness is not true…”
Although, Jesus in quoting the law excluded himself from it nevertheless, stated in no uncertain terms that he could bear witness about himself and be within the purview of their law which the Pharisees then, did not dispute.
John 8:17, 18 “…Also in Your own law it is written, ‘The witness of two men is true.’ I am one that bears witness about myself
Ok JDUB, we’re friends again
And yes, I do prefer underage girls.
Thank you,
Otto
to Mygrandmaker,
hi, I agree that figures should be made available to the public. The ‘par condicio’ should be the guiding principle especially for trials done in the same country,
Perhaps you should look up the silentlambs site.
Abuse cases keep coming out, but I think here it’s the government that should really look into this matter not after but prior to happening.
Prevention in this case does not exist. Everybody knows of the pro-paedophile laws of the Towers of All Terrors as outlined in their to-the-body of elders-only secret letters, not to mention the infamous ‘pay attention’ book where it is specifically directed for the elders to contact the watchtower’s lawyers in paedophile cases but not to run to the police and drag all their executives in court. Yet this horrific crime is shamelessly allowed by the Governement, by all so-called civilized western governments not only here in the US.
.
As a matter of public interest i think settlemet amounts should be revealed. The chatholics recently settled for at least 1.3 mil per plantiff and the news media reported that the over all settlement was 100 mil more giving each plaintiff an up tick in the actual amount and the mormon’s are not being sucessful in a 45 mil punitive sought by one plaintiff.
The point is that these victims are getting money and nothing less should be expected from the watchtower.
I think if their is a disparite settlement amounts between what the Watchtower and what these other religions are paying out then the law firm representing these watchtower victims need to voluteer some settlement numbers or be brought to the attention of the proper authoritys.
Any settlement numbers out their? And the name of the law firm would be appriciated or attorneys of.
mygrandmaker@yahoo.com
.
How can their every word be right if they keep changing their doctrine? 5 different predictions on the end of the world!!! You can’t drink alcohol. Now you can. Worship Jesus. No, never mind. Celebrate your birthday. No, don’t do that either. Trust us for all truth, even though we make mistakes, and use a bible version that no bible scholar finds credible. Trust our understanding of the bible even though the leaders/overseers have only a cursory understanding of the original languages. You must believe all we teach and follow it or you will lose your friends and family.
You will know them by their fruits.
Ok, then if it is a true relegion, then you can show one picture of a kingdom hall that is older than 100 year or one president before Pastor Russell. I rest my case.
Otto,
Pardon me, kind sir, but I was neither offended nor hurt by your comments. On the contrary, I was quite amused at your witty remarks regarding the WTS. That was quite a good little mix of words, that Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger. I must say good show, old chap! However, I am immensely surprised you came up with something so catchy. I just hope you didn’t lose an inordinate amount of sleep over that one. That would be a pity.
I do hope your little tiff with me will blow over. I do enjoy our banters, and would duly miss your company. I would hope you would reconsider.
PS By the way, my mother sends her regards once again. The stallion arrived late last for a splendid rendezvous. He had apparently come from your father’s home, and was a bit famished and exhausted. Mother saw to him, however, and mended his sores and bruises. He rested quite nicely last night. Please be a dear, and let your father know he is safe.
PPS I also noted that you did not specify if you prefer under-age girls. Should I take this withholding of information as an affirmation? If so, duly noted.
Cheers,
JDUB
to JDUB,
I see that you ain’t a good sport by sounding offensive&hurt. Too bad. You had it coming, but since you don’t get wisecracks nor you understand plain English, do not waste your time posting comments for me.
So long.
PS you’re writing style sucks.
Otto,
Thank you for the informative dissertation regarding your illicit persuasions. I cannot help but notice your emphasis of the “boy” part of my solicitation. Does this in fact imply that you enjoy the cyber-world company of underage girls?
Also, thank you for the kind words regarding my mother. She wanted me to send you her regards, and to thank your mother and father for sending the stallion her way. They apparently enjoyed his company too. Your father especially, as dictated by the stallions anal cavity being expanded beyond words.
Cheers,
JDUB
to JDUB,
Thank you JDUB, but I usually don’t mess with very, very normal and well-adjusted individuals like you.
Besides, I don’t get my kicks out of cyber-sex with underage boys. If I were into anything resembling un-orthodox sex I’d rather have remained a juoehoieviah’s witless where you can really enjoy being buggered 24/7 by the drooling ulama making up the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger.
Finally, I’m neither sexy nor a stallion…maybe you’re a little confused…the sexy stallion is the one impaling your mother.
Otto,
Do you participate in cyber-sex with underage boys? I am said underage boy, and would like to have sex with you. Please send me your email, you sexy stallion
JDUB
Dear Governing Body of the Watch Tower Society, Inc.,
I’m sorry I can’t give you the details concerning the automata ‘that’ wrote the the above insightful comment. But I known that, God willing, it (note the pronoun) too will be soon sucked up into your organizational net.
What a privilege serving the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger!
another pitiful case of a who-knows-to what-extent human-looking automata.
No wonder religions have money to burn.
As long as Satanas exist, child molestation will continue. Satanas is the Grandest molester, he molested Adam and Eve
The catholics and the rest of the churches were more rotten than this sect. The order of this world is the mother of all rotten and the father of all rotten is Satanas, his rotten sons and daughters is you and me unless we resist this rotten inclination in us.