Video of a Jehovah’s Witness elder 'twisting' the Truth in Court
In this video an elder states that disfellowshipping is a congregational matter and not a family matter and that Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t use the word ‘shunning’.
He talks positively about disfellowshipping saying that “for every six or ten people you bring on here that have bad experiences [with disfellowshipping] I can bring a hundred people that have been disfellowshipped … who will say it is the best thing that happened in their life”. Watch the video!
Twisting the truth is not considered as lying by Jehovah’s Witnesses according to their literature:
“While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it.” -Aid to Bible Understanding, pages 1060-1061
Some details about this trial:
Custody Case 1997-2005 USA
“Mr. M shall not directly or indirectly expose or allow the children to be exposed to shunning of their mother, or to engage in any family contacts or religious activities that directly or indirectly suggest or expose them to teachings, scriptural interpretations or declarations that Mrs. M is anything less than a good and honorable person and fully worthy of designated, implied, inferred, promised, reserved, assumed, or otherwise available, obtainable or receivable, so called spiritual blessings or rewards which might be obtained or available to faithful religious persons, including faithful members of the JW church. This shall include his exposure of the children to family members, church teachers, preachers, or other advocates of the JW church or to any condemning doctrines or activities. Mr. M shall not have, suggest or cause any religious communications with the children, advise them regarding religion or direct or advise them regarding what their personal conduct or religious activities should be, or monitor their activities to determine if they are in compliance with his religious beliefs, while they are with Mrs. M.”
“The court believes this conduct negatively affecting the children’s relationship with their mother should stop or be condemned. This church judgementalism, coupled with the malicious use of false accusations against their mother and her husband by their father, has nearly frightened these children away from their mother and her husband even though she is a sincere caring mother. Recognizing the children’s concerns and fears, the Court ordered that Mr. M be granted custody of the children, at least for the past year. This was granted notwithstanding the terrible wrongs he has perpetrated against his ex-wife and her husband. (Defendant) is treated as spiritually dead by the JW church and the extended family who are members. This ridiculous concept of people judging others appears to be a strong part of the religious judgementalistic doctrine and is apparently required of the members of the church.”
i would love to tie that son of a bitch to a chair and torture him to death then spit in his face and laugh as i move on to the next elder
Hi James, than you so much for your thoughtful comments, I’m sure anyone reading your comments would agree they are not full of bitterness and vitriol which I feel is very important in the light of the damage that some are suffering due to the WTS.. I, myself don’t feel any bitterness either, everything I did for them I did with all the sincerity my heart could offer, and I truly thought I was doing it for God, so I can’t in all honesty have big regrets.. However, I do feel really sad that my two gorgeous Sisters, their children, whom I love and my eldest son are all still on the ‘inside’ and can’t have anything to do with me, I also know they think they are doing the ‘right’ thing, so I really feel the WTS have a lot to answer for when the time comes for God’s real judgement, I’ll wait on him, I think.. Tomorow night my brother in law (non JW) is coming over to my place to show me my son’s wedding DVD, I know I’ll cry but have decided to get dressed up, have a bottle of Champagne at the ready and ‘toast’ the new couple (how decadent!!) It wil be a bitter/sweet night I fear, but as I wasn’t allowed to be there, I just have to be content with that.. Thanks again for a listening ear James and take good care of yourself
Sue..
Sue, thank you for such a lovely heartfelt message. The support you receive from “worldly” friends & family is invaluable & absolutely should be cherished, however I always encourage anyone who has left or are considering leaving this cult to start developing a survivor mentality. This does not mean you become selfish, it simply means to work at being less dependant on other people & organizations. This will help when things go bad in life, yet it also makes you stronger for the next round.
I am a socialite, who makes friends easily and always did. I had and still have lots of friends outside the JW umbrella. Today I have lots of friends, however one to three friends in particular exhibit more character, care & compassion than anyone ever did when I was in the faith. That’s not to say I didn’t have friends or knew some lovely people I did, it’s just I wouldn’t trust them enough to not sell out me or someone else at the drop of a hat. These kinds of people aren’t really your friends as the WTS stimulates a back-stabbing culture among the rank & file in their fanatic attempts to guard against some kind of insurrection that’s just not there. Franz’s book speaks to that, especially the insane behavior of the WTS President and his henchmen during it’s history.
Getting back to you; with your love, guidance & a positive attitude, help your child develop into a great adult. Don’t worry about what the religion says, etc. Also, your concern about whether you can communicate with God or not is a valid one. The WTS attempts to set itself up in place of Christ, acting as a mediator to God. This is all just more ridiculous stupidity from the cult. DO NOT let this bring you down or affect YOUR relationship with God & Christ. Jesus and only Jesus is the mediator. You can pray to both, you can have your own relationship with them without an earthly org. God did not in the past nor still does not need now any human or earthly group to fulfill his will. The WTS is nothing more than a lie, a corporate greedy empire just like all the other man-made religions. They criticize other big religions for all the things they are guilty of as well. The Watchtower Society (WTS) imposes it’s will upon those that are pulled into their net, made to feel they are never doing enough, which is why so many will & continue to feel the loss of some control once they have left. Once you know this whole thing is nothing more than a cult, develop your inner strength to see past the lunacy & systems created to make you feel lost & dependant on them. Sue you do need them, stay strong, stay positive & if you need to feel that God is with you, pray. Jesus’ sacrifice was for ALL mankind, not a select group whether this religion or any other than tries to change it’s importance to suit their agenda. Continue to be a supporter of your family, know yourself & be seen as strong, independant, yet loving & compassionate. In the real world this would mean to be normal & balanced, a trait forgotten by many due to the outside controlling forces created by human greed & stupidity.
Stay in touch Sue and do whatever it takes to move on with your life beyond this religion, even if it means you have to stop visiting this site. I personally have taken it upon myself to share all that I have learned with JW’s and others about the dangers of this faith. There was a period of time I left everything in order to get my life back, sometimes it means leaving anything to do with the religion behind. Do not sacrifice the loss of important things like family & friends, even though the religion has done it’s share of family destruction. It is easy to be angry & ticked off at this faith & it’s control tactics, however remember you know better now, move on with your life, learn to experience freedom & a God-given spirit of true love & understanding. Do not let any preconceived notions or concepts from the faith disrupt your need to learn, see & understand. Promote learning, not learning by some narrow-minded faith, real genuine learning, whether that is learning about other faith beliefs, trades, cultures, art, etc.
You lose so much of your life in this religion, don’t you feel it’s time for you to feel real freedom & love life now?
Take care Sue and always remember that you are not alone, no matter what.
James
Hi James
Thanks for your reply, most of the time I’m doing ok, though I come from Scotland I live in Australia and my only two Sisters in the ‘truth’ live here, I was a JW for 17 years, am now working full time with really lovely ‘wordly’ work mates who have been so supportive through the ’shunning’ business, then my son getting married three weeks ago, which really did break my heart, I don’t know what I would have done without them, it’s ironic isn’t it, that ‘worldly’ people are so looked down upon and maligned by JW’S as never being able to be ‘true’ friends, yet friendship should not be conditional and it certainly is as a JW isn’t it!!!
Since reading Ray’s book, it’s been another ’shock’ to me, but I guess it’s all part of the process, my youngest son Isaac (he’s 12) lives with me but goes to the meeting with his Father every Tues night and every 2nd Sunday, it’s a real balancing act of not ‘bagging’ the religion but at the same time I so don’t want him to be brainwashed, he’s a very popular kid at school so the one thing he has are lots and lots of ‘worldly’ friends, who often stay over and he at their places, I so want him to have a balanced view of everything, this is not only because I don’t want to lose him, but truly I want him to follow his heart and have a successful life at whatever he chooses, his teachers tell me how bright he is and I don’t want him to waste his God given talents to a bunch of dim wits, his Father is not particularly ’spiritual’ so in a way that, I hope works in Isaac’s favour, as I think (hope) his Father won’t try to talk him out of further education.. I’d say at the moment Isaac is my biggest worry, though to be honest I think he just goes along because he has to.. My other thing is my realtionship with God, I know this sounds stupid, I guess it must be all the indoctrination over the years, but I miss being able to talk to God and I’m still in a qaundry if he’d listen to me, what do you think James??
Any way, it was good to hear from you again, take care, hope to talk again..
Sue..
Hello again Sue, it is good to be in touch with you again. Ray’s book is very powerful, beautifully written without any vindictive or vengeful tones isn’t it?
The organization to me is nothing more than a cult, the rank & file’s true God is the Watchtower Society. Everything is built around their agenda, image & protection, even at the expense of their children, people’s lives & families. Such a shame, so ungodly, where is the love & compassion they speak of?
This would all be amusing if not for the terrible havoc it puts people through.
How are you doing Sue? Are you making out okay? I do not recall immediately what you have stated before, however do you have family and/or friends to help you emotionally, etc?
My family has nothing to do with me, they are unfortunately hypocrites. They don’t seem to mind taking or asking other non-believing family members for money, yet they then discard them or play the friend/family member for a day just to get the money. Contact with the family members is very little, until they need the cash of course. I really shouldn’t be surprised at this selfish action, after all they learned from their God (WTS), they’re the best at ripping others off for nothing other than the so-called great material they release.
Speaking of that, I recently asked a JW family member what new light/knowledge they learned since I left so many years ago. Guess what, they couldn’t tell me anything I already didn’t know when I was there. So why again are there so many meetings a week? That’s right, they constantly need to mentally reinforce their propaganda to ensure members don’t drift away. Outside of several other psychological identifiers, this religion is absolutely a cult.
If it was based on their great knowledge, perhaps they would get one prophecy to come true? Maybe they also wouldn’t have a legion of spaced-out followers many of which suffer from mental illnesses, depression, constant anxiety, financial destitution, naivety & narrow-mindedness.
Come on all you JW’s, think about what it is you are upholding & protecting, then ask yourself what your God the WTS will do for you when you question something or need their help. Don’t get upset at me for speaking some truth here, you certainly aren’t going to convince me that this religion is based on anything Jesus taught.
Thank you and God (the real God that is) bless you Sue,
James
Hi James, just writing to say I took your advice and got Ray Franz’s book, it came Friday and I finished it Sunday night, to say the least, I was blown away by his experiences, to think he and the others’ he mentions gave their lives to this organisation to be summarily dismissed like garbage is astounding.. I couldn’t sleep last night, my mind was so full of the things in that book, even though I wanted to just fade away and they came after me anyway,and even though I knew I never ever wanted to go back, still somewhere in my mind I thought it was still the truth and that the problems were on a local level, that the ‘brothers’ in Brooklyn would be appalled by what was happening to the ‘ordinary’ people like me, it seems that in fact, the rot is from the Top down, not the other way around,Ray calls the belief system a ‘myth’ and though I feel upset by that, he’s absolutely right, when I say ‘upset’ I think it’s because I believed it all for so long, I feel like a bit of an idiot and not only that, like Ray, my reputation amongst my family is dirt and I have no way of even approaching them to explain, anyway sorry, I’m rattling on, hope this is all part of the healing process, the book stirred up a lot of emotions in me, I just have to try to face them, process them and move on, thanks James, take care, Sue..
Are you asking for a WT definition or interpretation of these?
The ‘king of the north’ used to be the cold war enemy Russia. But now it is friends with Anglo-America and will not rise up against the ‘south king’. So whom did they pick next? After 9/11 the North King is explained to be the dark menace Islamic terrorism. I am sure as their light is getting brighter over the time another interpretation will become necessary and it will again be a sign that Armageddon is at hand! This is just out of memory, “King of the South-religion-the whore” -I don’t remember that kind of word assimilation. Is it new? Maybe someone can help me out here? The great prostitute Babylon is said to be the world empire of false religion and is not a political power itself.
But I am not sure what you mean with your questions. What is your message?
King of the North-politics-the beast?
King of the South-religion-the whore?
I have listened to this clip and read the comments with interest and to my way of thinking it confirms a statement I made on this site previously
People are fickle and will do and believe whatever the hell they want to and it doesn’t matter if it’s right or wrong. People will take to whatever strikes thier fancy which is why there are debates like this over words and doctrines.
Working in Market Research I see this all the time. I can offer people solid proof that we are not selling anything nor will their participation result in a sales call and they refuse to acknowledge this. They firmly believe I am trying to sell them a worthless product and dont want to hear anything that contrdicts that belief
Belief is what we as humans live by and if you can get ahold of that you can get people to do anything, witness Nazi Germany.
This is why I gave up on the JW. Why try to reason with someone who really doesn’t want to know? Why associate with people who have their own views and there is so much conflict over what we should do, say, believe etc. Same thing applies to politics. Why bother getting involved when people are going to do what they want to in the end? And to society in general..it sickens me to see how people behave and it takes sooooo much joy out of life.
We CAN solve any problem we face…any one of them. It’s not and never has been a question of can but one of will. Will we…solve these problems…choose the right paths…treat our world with respect…treat every other human with respect…and the answer is always a big fat…NO. People do not want to. They want to do what they want to do…I wonder sometimes why i go on living in a horrible world like this filled with selfish, ignorant, arrogant and stupid people who lack self control.
For the comment by durk (Comment ID: 13164):
I unfortunately do not understand all of your comment, perhaps English is not your native tongue?
No problem, I will try to do my best to answer.
Yes I was a JW for approx. 15 years, and much of this time was wasted on an ideology that isn’t factually based at all.
We are all imperfect, however it is a totally different matter to mess with people’s lives & dogmatically shove an agenda down people’s throats, all the while having followers believe that they (WTS) are unaccountable. Sorry, maybe in your world or many JW’s that may be the case, however like I have stated before, I encourage any & all JW’s to really ponder the doctrinal history of their faith. After all it is your life, perhaps you should know all it’s internal workings before trying to convince others it’s the truth?
Let’s forget about whether this is a personal matter or not. This has nothing to do with what you think of me or what I perceive of you. This has however everything to do with responsibility & accountability and whether the religion is from God or not. If you’re faith’s beliefs/doctrines are not truly based on a biblical foundation, then they are NOTHING.
I do NOT at all recognize or acknowledge the Watchtower Society (WTS) as a prophet, scholar or authority. Everyone of their doctrines is riddled with falsehoods.
Consider the known facts regarding the WTS:
1. Constant flip flopping on almost every concept/doctrine. Is this supposed to be how a so-called “spirit-filled” operation works? What ownership has the WTS taken for where this has caused untold grief to people’s lives?
2. They have redefined hypocrisy to a point that it will forever be remembered as part of their legacy. They really need to apply their own counsel they love to bestow upon everyone else.
3. Read their literature BEFORE 1914 and see the downright naivety & false prophecy. 1914 was the end, not the beginning of the end. Also, why do they still celebrate the Memorial, after all they state that Christ came back didn’t they? Let’s not forget to mention that they changed their minds on that as well. Once they didn’t see Christ in the flesh years ago and wanted to avoid a huge exodus of unhappy followers, they started to publish that he came invisibly. Sheer nonsense, please take the time to try & find the old literature or read the scanned documents published here and all over the web. The WTS also edited re-issued copies of these books to try and avoid this exact problem. You might also want to find out how they came up with the date 1914, not the WTS’ version made up later.
4. They changed the meaning of original manuscripts when making their own bible so as to ensure their doctrines were made to look correct.
5. The protection of their image and the corporate machine that it is, is much more important than the lives of it’s followers. If you don’t understand or believe this, try reading the court dialogue everytime the WTS is sued. They will go to great lengths to avoid paying any money or accepting blame, even when they knowingly are guilty.
6. There are many more, however ask yourself this question: Why am I protecting an operation that protects pedophiles? Does this make those who protect the business as guilty? What is being done about it?
I hope this helps and sorry if it is some ugly truth, however truth can hurt at times.
God bless,
James
hay James,
may I ask you something?
have bin a JW?
Iff you have bin that, why a you telling this. do you want to tel me that they are just poeple like you and me who makes mistakes to? they are not saying that they are perfect.
JW are doing there best to live a life how Gods tells it in his bible. you know how its written in the bible. poeple this days want to live it there way. see wats happening.
One other thing Sue if you haven’t already, please do yourself a HUGE favor and read Ray Franz’s books, especially his first. You can get them on Amazon.com.
It is not only written very lovely with no vindictive behavior, it is a major eye-opener.
James
You want to thank Rado for this site, not me. He has done & continues to do a fabulous job.
It’s funny, I just had a couple of JW’s come to my door last weekend, you should have witnessed (pun intended) that conversation. They finally told me I was full of crap, they didn’t believe a single thing I said, at which point I stated that they shouldn’t shoot the messenger for the sake of the message. I merely asked that they discuss things that are tangible & factual.
Secondly I asked that how they could be so ignorant & narrow-minded not to verify anything I said before shooting it down. However, I was nice the whole time, they had a hard time trying to answer any of the issues I raised, here are a few:
1. I asked them to name one prophecy of the WTS that came true.
2. I asked why was the WTS involved as a NGO partner with the UN?
3. Why do they run down other religions for problems like pedophila, when their religion is running rampant with such problems?
4. I asked about misc. areas of hypocrisy the WTS is guilty of, i.e. Malawii versus Mexico.
Needless to say if you’re religion has not instructed it’s followers on what to say, they won’t have any idea other than the turtle move, you know hide in the shell or bury their head in the sand. Denial is great, the only problem is making it reality.
An important element to remember in this whole mess, is that this religion likes to think it has something over us non-JW’s or ex-JW’s, that is why you see such smug ignorant, yet shallow statements from some JW’s on this site or in person when trying to have a conversation with them. I think it’s goes without saying that they won’t be visiting me again anytime soon. I welcomed them to stay and let me show them irrefutable proof of many of the issues I discussed, since they were thinking I was out to lunch.
Obviously they have been trained not to consider anything outside the realm of what they are instructed/brainwashed to believe from their God, the Watchtower Society. We know all about that Sue, we used to be in their shoes weren’t we? Thank the real God we learned otherwise. There is more to life than devoting your whole life to an earthly organization & it’s selfish non-Christian agenda.
Stay in touch and know that there are many of us who know different. The internet among other resources will assist in the eventual destruction of this circus show they like to call the “truth”.
James
Thank you so much for your kind words James, you obviousely know exactly how I’m feeling and I know this is not an isolated story by any stretch of the imagination, it’s funny, when I stopped going to the meetings I never pretended to be a ‘quasi’ witness like so many I know leading double lives, I could never do that and so my life was pretty much an open book, however they got me on the ’smoking’ charge anyway, pity they couldn’t look after the one’s ‘inside’ instead of doing the ‘witch hunt’ on me, anyway it’s all over now, but I’d to thank you for this site which I only discovered yesterday, and which I’m sure will help a lot of people move on and away from all the hurt being caused by the so called ‘truth’..
Sue
For Sue (Comment ID: 13007):
Greetings Sue, your story is a heart-wrenching one for sure, it is a shame how this religion operates. They couldn’t be more clueless on how compassion & love was exhibited by Jesus, they just pay lip service to such ideals.
I lost my family over very similar circumstances, they just don’t get it, however remember they are in a cult, deny this as they might try to do, yet denial does not change reality. All of the psychological aspects of a cult are manifest within this religion, yet I’m sure that doesn’t lessen the pain you have & still experience.
I would love society (at least in North America to start) to change it’s laws to make cults & other wacko religions more accountable. That way people like you & me could sue them for such lunacy in destroying families, protecting idiots & pedophiles, etc.
Perhaps through the power of the internet, victims of their pedophiles and people like us, we can help turn the tide & flush this garbage down the drain.
You know when you are away from this religion, it’s funny how you start to see more than one side to every story, right? This is because we are no longer on hand to recieve the constant brainwashing they utilize.
I always held issue with this religion’s people being the only ones who are saved, Jesus’ sacrifice was for everyone, not a select group who has decided what value that holds. Everything was around them, they set themselves up in place of Christ, trying to be a mediator to God. After all just listen to their dedication vows when getting baptized. It’s just as important to pledge alligence to the WTS as it is to God. Well sorry WTS morons, God does NOT need an earthly organization to accomplish his will. And what is his will? That’s right, you only think it’s your antiquated method of proselytizing, you know the one that’s not converting many especially now that people have the internet to reveal your stupidity.
Sue just give it time, so many things in life have been discovered & quickly shared throught the Net, it will be one of the nails in the WTS’ coffin.
Take care and God Bless,
James
I was a JW for 17 ys, reg pioneer, reg aux pioneer etc etc, married to a violent aggressive ‘brother’ for 13 of those and kept my ’shamefull’ secret for many of those years ’till I just had to go to the ‘older men’ for help. My problems were seen as a ’storm in a tea cup’ and if I wanted a relationship with Jehovah I should stick to my marriage vows and not leave, he was never spoken to I might add.. Eventually after being kicked out of bed up agianst a wall, I could take it no more and left.. I became very dissolusioned after some time and stopped attending meetings, didn’t hear from the elders for some 13 mnths till I got a phone call from one telling me they were having a meeting, invited me to come along and explain why there were reports I was smoking! I declined, then was told 2 weeks later I had been D/F, invited to appeal, I declined once more, the announcement was made and that was that, I’ve lost my 2 sisters, their children, my ‘friends’ and my son was married last week without me ofcourse being invited, I hasten to add my ex husband is still an ‘upstanding’ brother, Im heart broken but not ‘broken’ but I know it’s going to be some time before I ever get over all this witch hunt mentality
I came to this site because of the video and found it to be fascinating, although a part of me is sad to find out that the court ruled against the mother. The other part of me does not quite know what to think as the ghost feelings of being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses somewhat still lingers. My wife and I were disfellowshipped…I mean “no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses” our understanding is they no longer say disfellowshipped although it means the same thing. What was actually said we can’t really say as we were not there when it was announced, but then how could we as we never even met with the elders (there is more to the story and will share if asked). Now for those of you who are (which there shouldn’t be any reading from this site) or were JW’s…yes they did send a registered letter to our house, in fact two of them. However, we do not know what they said as we both work and were not home when the post office tried to deliver them and never bother to get them. In fact we never heard from them, we didn’t even know for months until my wife notice that a couple of the Witnesses she ran into were not acknowledging her where as they use to when we were just inactive. For those of you “who are in the world” (non-JW) that just means we weren’t going to the Kingdom Hall. I know what you are thinking and no, my wife and I are not really considered “part of this world” we are something worst! We are “like the dog that has returned to his own vomit”…anyone have a dog biscuit the ones for bad breath? You know my dad, who will have nothing to do with me, said to me a couple of years ago that the elders should have disfellowshipped me back when I was 21 (42 now) then I would not be in the shape I am in now…I was thinking you mean Free! By the way I am not even sure if my parents know that we are disfellowshipped as we live in a different state, but you see he is being a good little Witness by…oh what’s the word…ignoring me…no that’s not it. Maybe its excommunicate…no, that’s close but not it…oh wait it kind of rhymes with DUMB! That’s right my father for all sense of the word has shun me because I had expressed that I was losing my faith and wasn’t sure that I even believed there was a god (oh my did I just say that?). Ok, I know I know that’s apostate thinking but I was kind of pleading for understanding…although if you think about it he wasn’t being that good of a Witness as he didn’t turn me into the elders for expressing that. Maybe that is one of those “gray areas” for him…ha ha, now there is a term that an ex-JW’s can appreciate. You see that was part of why I was losing faith, the Society preaches uniformity across the globe. What information one Kingdom Hall gets the other ones on the other side of the globe get as well. Yet, the brothers in the Miamisburg Kingdom Hall (the one my brothers go on and off to) can have beards and still give talks, run the mic’s and work behind the literature counter, where as my Kingdom Hall you can not. The biggest one and the one that was very near the last straw for me was at one of the conventions where there was “new light”(I have come to hate this term) stating that “this generation” does not refer to a specific generation. It was once believed that “this generation” referred to the ones that were old enough (about 14 years old) to understand what was going on back in 1914 when the first would war broke out. So, where the bible said that “this generation will by no means come to pass until all these things occur” gave us hope that the end of this system of things would soon be here as that generation would be about 106 now…not many left on the planet. However, in the Society’s infinite and divine wisdom they magically (I mean Jehovah revealed to them) that they had it wrong or maybe not quite right. It does not take a genius to figure out that if they didn’t change that line of thinking they were going to end up with a great falling out when the end didn’t come, better to get it over with now and pull the old “new light” trick. This is one of the things that got me to become “Awake”. You see as a loving parent I could not see giving my sons instruction on what they can expect later in life and then years down the road after encouraging them to share this information, to then tell them sorry you misunderstood me. I would want people to know that these are my sons and not have any doubt about it. It seems to me that it would be difficult to explain why Jehovah’s Faithful and discreet slave has had to change their line of thinking…wouldn’t a loving parent make sure their kids had the right info the first time? Sorry for the rambling on…I think this is part of some of my healing that needs to be done. Even though I am 42 with a family of my own…I still miss my mommy and daddy.
it’s not going to be a pleasant experience.if you love the man truly then i suggest show him why a personal relationship with jesus christ is important.do not discuss trinity right away.just make the guy read the bible without the publications of WT and that’s enough.
they have a series of false prophecies and believe that christ has already arrived invisibly.
Unfortunately anonymous (Comment ID: 12014) it does not work that way. One cannot just reject the witnesses; they resemble a fungus that still grows regardless if you try to get rid of it.
I wrote letters of disassociation to the society, local kingdom hall, and copies to the majority of members of my congregation so that everyone new why I left. This was about 4 ½ years ago. I leave in a very small community where everybody knows everybody, so to speak.
Would you believe that a week ago they (4 witnesses) came to my door to invite me to the memorial! Talk about the nerve, hypocrisy not to say the least. Who the hell they (witnesses) think they are????? After an educated discussion, I can assure you they will not return again! Every time I see witnesses on the street or in town I always make a point of saying a greeting to them regardless of what their response might be, the hypocrites look the other way as if I am some insignificant human being, a dog not to say the least; can you imagine the nerve of those same people to come to my door with 2 magazines (awake and watchtower) and an invitation for the memorial. Did I ever give them a piece of my mind!
Yes, everyone has the right to practice his or her own religion, even being part of a cult just like you.
I too have the right to be free from the witnesses. Why do they still come to my door trying to annoy me even though they know I am not interested? Do I need to put a bigger sign at the entrance of my property??? Don’t they have enough people with peddlers licenses selling books for the watchtower?
Note: you are not a free thinker, watchtower does that for you and the rest of the witnesses, you simply parrot whatever mother ship prints.
Note: you are more like a programmed robot!
I will check your answer sometime this afternoon after my game of golf.
If you have bad feelings about them, you can just reject them or their publications…no need for all these pointing and hyping…
Everyone has the right to practice their own religion. But time will tell if yours is the correct one or not. Why not wait till then? If theirs is the false one (wicked one), then they will die in a fiery lake, right? Why have to release tension here…when a bigger punishment awaits any falsehoods?
Why not mention about Catholics, Protestants, Methodists, etc., etc., etc.? I’m sure there are many other Christian dominations out there…
So next time they step up to you, just tell them you are not interested…no need to mention so much, right?
Note: I am a free-thinker…
Re: Comment by dan (Comment ID: 11671)
Dan the Man, I could not agree more. I too was involved for years and grew tired of all the BS. This religion isn’t just filled with hypocrisy, it is nothing more than a false religion, period. Not one true prophecy came out of it, their older publications prove their naivety & narrow-mindedness & they fight hard to protect their image at the expense of their children being molested by pedophiles within their ranks.
It’s all a big joke, a joke that would be extremely funny if it weren’t for the horrible aspects of being involved with it.
this religion is absurd. please……if you are considering joing…………run away. If you are considering leaving………run as fast as you can. I was a part of it for 20 years, until I woke up and saw the hipocrasy and lies and bullshit. it is NOT loving, it is NOT tolerant. it is mind control. run away, do not let this dominate your life as It did mine.
love,
brainwashed nomore
Why not just read the bible to find out what it really teaches?
You will find all that you need by doing two things and two things alone.
First, pray to thee God our Father who is in Heaven and ask for wisdom from Him and Him alone; not from any person, place, or thing on, in or of this Earth.
Secondly, read the bible; the only exception to my statement above and the only document on, in or of this Earth worth getting advise from, because it is God’s word.
When you rely on Man Kind and not God our Father in Heaven you will end up getting a fog too thick to see the truth through.
Hello again, I’m Baaaack!
Re: Comment by anonomous (Comment ID: 11376):
You say: “But my advice to you is, to look at the latest book “What does the bible really teach?” or even an older one, the “Family Happiness,” book.”
How about going back further, oops, don’t want to do that now do we? You’ll quickly see a religion riddled with false prophecy & naivety. This is why they constantly release new publications re-working the same material, it’s all propaganda. If you fo back far enough you will see utter ridiculous prophecies, wisdom & instruction, all based on their so-called Godly inspired wisdom.
Yes folks, the WTS isn’t much different than any other money-making operation, with the exception that it has continually worked to perfect the smoke & mirrors aspect of how they deliver their instruction.
To anonomous (Comment ID: 11376), you must be very naïve, stupid not to say the least to believe that Jehovah’s witnesses have the answers.
Yes, http://www.watchtower.org is the official website for the witnesses so what? What is your point?
You say we don’t know who is behind this site, OK. Who is behind watchtowers website???? If you want my opinion, I think it is the devil!
Please spare us the crap of your books, if one believes in the bible than the answers are there, not in the propaganda books written by the Watchtower.
You are best to do your own research, rather than find your answers on a website..you don’t know who is behind the website, they could be apostate, who slander Jehovahs name.
There is only one official website for Jehovah’s witnesses http://www.watchtower.org.
But my advice to you is, to look at the latest book “What does the bible really teach?” or even an older one, the “Family Happiness,” book.
Jean.
It sound like your signigicant other is a faded JW. Not Disfellowshipped or Disassociated. With that being the case co-habitation would result in him being Disfellowshipped. Spending one night together, even if you slept in seperate beds could be used as evidence to DF him. Just marrying you (a Catholic) by a judge is not grounds for DF. If he married you in your church then DF or DA.
For more information goto:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com post your questions in the friends section and you will get many answers. Or you can just read the many comments about mostly everything JW.
Guten Tag,
during the questioning of the JW elder, the elder was asked about the “custody book”, which the elder denied knowing anything about and said he had never heard about this. The lawyer was asking him regarding his knowledge of the booklet prepared and published by the WTSociety entitled “PREPARING FOR CHILD CUSTODY CASES”. The WTS puts so much emphasis on the distribution of its publications, WHY is this booklet kept as such a secret even before court? Why dose the elder engage in falsehood?
If anyone is interested in reading a copy, you can download it here: http://www.quad-central.com/
Scroll down to Secret Books and click Child Custody Booklet.pdf.
You will need Acrobat Reader to open and save it.
I encourage especially Jehovah’s Witnesses to read it or ask your local elders, better presiding overseer, concerning the existence, contents and purpose of providing this booklet. And please let us know what you found out.
Best regards,
There is absolutely no aspect of the WTBTS that is not abhorrent from any standpoint you wish to examine them. I refer to the “faithless and vindictive opppressor class” not the R & F who are the hapless victims of the evil spawn of Spiritual Dreck.
I am so very glad every time I read of someone who is no longer a Watchtower slavem and are sharing their experiences with the world via the Internet. Thank you, and please continue to speak up at every chance you get.
Light to you always,
Nathaniel Merritt
I can only concur. The WTBTS is by far the most cunningly evil, wretched, demonic, satanic, lying, oppressive, foul and fiendish gaggle of psychic vampires imaginable. They should be in prison, breaking rock in the hot sun, every last one of the “faithless and vindictive master class.”
All the best to you,
NJM
Dear J,
I feel for you, I really do. I’m sure your friend is a great person and has the best intentions for you, but I am QUITE familiar with these books (and all their books).
The problem is that the books seem innocent enough but they will subtly steer your towards the “Organization.”
Remember that “Love NEVER fails” and focus on this, between the two of you. If you decide to examine these books, do so in the light of Scripture (a Bible that you can CLEARLY understand, NOT the “Witness” Bible NWT).
And always remember emphasize to your friend, Jesus Christ “tasted death for EVERY MAN (and Woman)” – Hebrew 2:9
Best wishes to you.
John
Hello there…
Please accept my condolences in the death of your friend.
I hope you can help me with something I am wrestling with. I have been involved with a jw for the past 1 1/2 years. He’s a good man…perhaps a little too rigid for me but I have questions about myself and life in general…he has given me the book “The World’s Greatest Man” and the children’s book “The Bible Stories”. He has indicated that I might find the rules for living in these books. I am Catholic but for years have not been a church goer. I believe that I live my life in a Christian-like manner.
My questions are:
Because I am such serious doubt of myself and how I come across to others and the choices I make, might I find the answers for a more successful way of living in these books?
There are concerns that I have for him. He is not active as a jw but hasn’t formally been disfellowshipped. How serious is the impact of a jw co-habitating or marrying a catholic? I believe that this has influenced the direction of our relationship and it is not going where it may have progressed.
Feedback would be greatly appreciated…even if you can tell me perhaps where I might be able to find more answers to my questions if you are unable to help.
We are both around 50 yrs of age.
Have a great day!
j
All I can tell you is, if you are of an age where you can make that decision for yourself GET OUT!
I “witnessed” the lives of my two older brothers literally torn apart by that organization; not a pretty sight.
If you are not of an age where you can make that decision (and even if you are), get an understandable Bible (NOT the NWT) and begin reading it intensely. Especially the New Testament. You will know more than the elders of your congregation and when it comes time for you to get out you will have the strength to do so with confidence!
Peace!
John
I was a jw for many years and have been out for about 4 ½ years. I disassociated myself over a case of abuse that I could not agree with the outcome.
Yesterday I went to the funeral of a young witness and I could not believe the bullshit that came out of the speaker. The person that died was a decent good person whom I took care of many times as a child; he loved to be in service with me.
To make a long story short, the memorial talk went on for 52 minutes and nothing much was said about the dead person. This was the last time to mention his good qualities, hard, honest worker, who graduated with honors from primary and high school (unfortunately because being a witness that is as far as he went) as you well know school is not the most important thing, after all the end is just around the corner [sarcasm intended!]
The entire talk was about Jehovah god, field service, paradise, paradise, paradise, scripture up on scripture, up on scripture, up on scripture, up
There were people that were so discussed that even left the hall and went outside.
on scripture, up on scripture.
There were lots of people there from his job. And they could not believe the shit that went on and on and on. Afterwards they approached me since they knew I once was a witness and asked me if that is what a normal funeral for Jehovah’s witness is supposed to be . I said: “now that I have been out for a while, I can see things differently and certainly agree that there was a lot of bull shit said about jw’s and not much about the great person that died.
I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. My brother is nineteen and disfellowshipped. It has nothing but made his life worse and not want anything to do with the religion anymore. I myself was an unbaptized publisher. I say was because I got that privelege taken away as well as my commenting, service and my equality. I get treated special now. I am highly frowned at and I feel no need to be there. They claim the punishments will encourage you and make you want to strive to get back to your standing you had before. But I, nor my brother, feel that way.
The reason more people have responded to the disfellowshipping video is that 40,000+ per year are disfellowshipped from their families. Not every D/F and divorce involves children and who gets custody.
The court video is most important to the mother or father who loses his or her child. While this does not happen 40,000+ times a year it is the most important thing in a parents life. The U.S. Judicial system needs to come to terms when acknowledging that lies are acceptable when they come from church elders.
When a church makes it church policy to lie in a court of law, that policy is not, in my opinion, protected by the 1st amendment guaranteeing freedom of religion.
The current sitting judges think otherwise.
Why is this video so much less popular (12+ comments) than the video posted in the previous posting (156+ comments)? I think this video is more exemplary for the tactics of the WTS than the video of the man filming some poor elders.
Yes, the effect of disfellowshipping is totally misrepresented by this JW presiding overseer. I was a congregation servant and pioneer (full-time preacher) in Germany, and remember when my father became an elder and attended his first elder-training-school, seminars conducted by WT-representatives. He was very exited and motivated. Even though, he shouldn’t have he told me what instructions were received (in fact CO’s have also told me a lot about these seminars), he did. My father is a simple man with not much bible knowledge, and he felt very privileged to be an attendant. Proud to tell me that only elder can attend these meeting, no outsider or regular JW. This is very carefully and strictly controlled. To begin with, attendances are instructed not to make video or audio recordings. At some sections not even personal handwritten notes should be taken, the elder books are only to be received by serving elders and may not be hand- or photocopied. At loss of eldership the book must be returned to WTSociety. The reason for all of this is the danger posed by apostasy.
His overall summary was the “Big-O”. Obedience! “I will obey the governing body no matter what they say. If they tell me to jump, I jump, without asking questions. If they tell me my black bible is green –then it is green!” he told me. At these seminars elder are trained to conduct judicial committees, how to communicate with the WTSociety and how to testify at worldly courts. The policy of telling the truth has appropriately been presented on this site. And this video is a perfect example of this. The WT takes advantage of its own jargon, which is not understood by non-JW’s. An active JW can even depict an inactive JW, by the use of his terminology. So if an elder is asked to testify and in questioning an inaccurate or not up-to-date terminus is used by a non-JW lawyer, the elder can easily discredit the accusation made. Like in this case, “custody-package or custody-book”. If the lawyer does not use the exact wording used by JW’s, the elder can say he never heard of this, without feeling he has lied. It was interesting to see how he attempted to counsel the lawyer for referring to JW as having a “doctrine”. As if this is something evil to have.
JW’s can often appear to be studied and well versed in the Bible. This is impressive to many and the WTS channels this for that purpose. Actually, very few elders or WT-representatives have in-depth knowledge of the scriptures. So most of them hide behind insider-terminus and key-scriptures repeated over and over again.
Hopefully lawmakers, courts and lawyers around the world realize this (not only with JW’s) and nail them down more effectively.
It is a balatant lie , the true evil of the Watchtowers policy is that disfellowshipping is enforced with the threat that those who dont practice it will themselves be shunned. They may not use the word , but they certainly pracice it under the guise of disfellowshipping.Wicked!
Hi:
I laughed when a comment was posted here by the name of Ken Little. The Ken Little that I knew when I was a Witness would NEVER post on a website like this. Why? Because Ken Little is the Branch Co-ordinator for the Canadian branch of the Watchtower Society.
Do elders and other Witnesses lie in court? Absolutely! I believe the Bible teaches Christians to be honest in all things.
Some things can be “Bible-based” and yet not HARMONIZE with the Bible. Just as Satan himself said, “It is written …”
Thanx Ken, yes that was what i was getting at with my post.
The Elder was saying *WE* dont shun thats a stereotype
and like tar and feathering in the video.
While the Watchtower is proudly boasting about a case its won for its shunning on its own site.
Rado, I think Debbie was showing another case where the courts recognized that JoeHoes *DO* practice shunning.
The elder took an oath under penalty of perjury to tell the truth. He lied under oath, which can be proven, and therefore is subject to the penalties afforded under the law for perjurers. He deserves to be punished.
the link is to a bonafidi watchtower page which gives an example of a case where they won the right to *shun* another lady in a case unconnected to this one,
the elder clearly stated in the video that they do not ’shun’ people, just bad habits.
the watchtower article states clearly that they do.
apologies for any confusion or distress caused.
The case you mentioned is not the same case!
Rado Vleugel
webmaster
Wrong case there. Sorry Debbie.
This elder/CO slithered his way through the questions. He never said that there is a custody packet, he said he never saw one. Time restraints prevented the lawyer from challenging his answers. Too Bad. This is a good video in showing the lying tactics that elders will use. Upcoming cases can use this to fine tune questions for these …
from the watchtower official site
http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/1988/4/15/article_01.htm#footnote2_src
Before the case went to trial, a federal district court summarily granted judgment against her. That judgment was based on the concept that courts do not get involved in church disciplinary matters. She then appealed. The unanimous judgment of the federal court of appeals% was based on broader grounds of First Amendment (of the U.S. Constitution) rights: “Because the practice of shunning is a part of the faith of the Jehovah’s Witness, we find that the ‘free exercise’ provision of the United States Constitution . . . precludes [her] from prevailing. The defendants have a constitutionally protected privilege to engage in the practice of shunning. Accordingly, we affirm” the earlier judgment of the district court.
The court opinion continued: “Shunning is a practice engaged in by Jehovah’s Witnesses pursuant to their interpretation of canonical text, and we are not free to reinterpret that text . . . The defendants are entitled to the free exercise of their religious beliefs . . . Courts generally do not scrutinize closely the relationship among members (or former members) of a church. Churches are afforded great latitude when they impose discipline on members or former members. We agree with [former U.S. Supreme Court] Justice Jackson’s view that ‘[r]eligious activities which concern only members of the faith are and ought to be free—as nearly absolutely free as anything can be.’ . . . The members of the Church [she] decided to abandon have concluded that they no longer want to associate with her. We hold that they are free to make that choice.”
quote:
—————————————————————–Hence, this important case determined that a disfellowshipped or disassociated person cannot recover damages from Jehovah’s Witnesses in a court of law for being shunned
—————————————————————–
page footnote
quote:
—————————————————————–
Though various individuals have brought suit, no court has rendered a judgment against Jehovah’s Witnesses over their Bible-based practice of shunning.
—————————————————————–