Sons of Jehovah's Witnesses return from Iraq without welcome
Two brothers, Jason and Johel Woodliff, came back from Iraq with their comrades in a Marine Corps battalion that lost 48 members, greeted by a mile-long parade attended by thousands of strangers. But not by their family.
The brothers, their parents and J.R. Brown, director of public information for the Watchtower Bible Tract Society, all speak out about Jehovah’s Witnesses and military service.Two brothers, Jason and Johel Woodliff, came back from Iraq with their comrades in a Marine Corps battalion that lost 48 members, greeted by a mile-long parade attended by thousands of strangers.
But not by their family.
Thomas and Mia Woodliff, who are devout Jehovah’s Witnesses, were so upset by their sons’ decisions to join the Marine Reserves that they did not meet them at the airport upon their return last month.
“I begged my mother to come, but I knew she wouldn’t,” Johel said. “Several families know our situation and have taken us under their wing. My mom knows I’ll always have love for her. I believe love is unconditional.”
His brother is less forgiving.
“What’s the most important thing in the Bible? Love and family,” Jason asked. “It’s not like I blasphemed God or worshipped the devil. It’s just ridiculous to me.”
In a written statement, Thomas and Mia Woodliff respond:
“We love our sons and are saddened that they have expressed public disappointment regarding what should be a private, family matter, that is, our choice not to attend the recent homecoming party for the 3rd Battalion, 25th Marines. As you know, we are Jehovah’s Witnesses and are neutral as to the political and military affairs of the world. We base our beliefs on Scriptures such as John 17:14, 16, Matthew 5:43, 44 and Matthew 26:52 among others. This means we are neither for nor against the political involvements of the 200-plus nations that we can be found in. This does not mean that we do not love the land in which we live, or that we disrespect the government or those in authority. We recognize that each nations ruling authority has the right to enact and enforce laws, make foreign policy and to purse its own sovereign interests. We simply choose not to participate.
However, we are generally known as exemplary taxpayers and citizens and we try to follow the laws of the land to the extent that our Bible-trained conscience will individually permit. Which leads us to the main point of our statement. Our two sons were taught to be peace-loving followers of Jesus Christ. Instead, they have chosen a different path. We respect their right to chose whatever lifestyle they wish. And we hope one day for reconciliation so that we can be a united family again. We have many fond memories of the abundant good times we shared together. In the meantime, please be assured that the current difference in point of view, and the separation in ties that has occurred as a result, does not mean that we love our children less.”
Graduates of Washington High School in Massillon, the Woodliffs said they had a strict upbringing based on their parents’ faith, and that the real trouble began when they announced their intentions to become Marines.
“When they found out I wanted to join, they were very upset about it,” said Johel, 20, who turned down a college scholarship to join the Marines in 2003. “I let them know that as I grew older, I had done some research on the religion, and that it didn’t abide with my beliefs.”
Jason, 23, claims that when he informed his parents in 2004 that he too intended to join the Marines, he was asked to leave the house.
“I was 18 years old, living by myself in a trailer,” he said. “I haven’t had a conversation with my dad in five years. For him, it’s 100 percent about the religion.”
Though the Bible is filled with accounts of battles and war imagery, J.R. Brown, director of public information for the Watchtower Bible Tract Society, confirmed that Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t participate in military service based on their interpretation of Scripture, and that the actions of the Woodliffs’ parents are consistent with the faith.
“As Christians, we’re neutral with respect to the conflicts that nations have,” he said. “Our neutrality is just in regards to conflicts of men. This doesn’t mean we’re adversaries. We try to (convey) that to the person as best we can, but because they’re usually partisan, they think we’re against them. That’s not the case. We’re truly neutral.”
Brown noted that numerous U.S. court decisions have recognized members’ right to neutrality.
“We’re not be feared,” Brown said, adding that the church is merely adhering to Jesus’ admonition to, “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and unto God, the things that are God’s.”
Brown acknowledged that family members who enter the military voluntarily, risk “disassociation.”
“We as an organization or local congregation do not initiate this action,” he explained. “Rather than ‘disfellowship,’ we use ‘disassociation’ as a term. That means the individual made a conscientious decision that he or she would no longer ascribe to the principles that we do. He or she has decided to take a side; the individual has left the position of ‘neutral.’ We look at disassociation as accepting the person’s decision to take a side.”
Given that the faith places a great deal of emphasis on the family, Brown concedes that others might see the policy as contradictory.
“It depends on how you look at your Christian responsibility,” he said. “We look at our responsibility before God as our first and foremost responsibility. As our creator, he comes first. We feel our position of neutrality is based on our love for him. If a family member does not accept the same decision, we feel they have to bear the consequences. It pains us. We’re human too.”
Brown said members must prioritize their allegiances.
“You have to decide who’s first in your life, is it God more than any human?” he said. “The fact is, we do not even put ourselves and our own interests ahead of God. He’s our creator. Our allegiance is first to him. In making that decision, it does at times create problems within the family. Husbands, wives, parents can be torn; there’s love there. But the apostle said we must obey God as ruler rather than man.”
The Woodliff brothers say they consider themselves nondenominational but still fervently believe in God. Johel Woodliff carries a camouflage Bible and wears a medallion of St. Michael, the warrior angel, on a chain with his dog tags.
“There are Scriptures written all over Iraq,” Johel said. “My favorite is John 15:13.”
“War shouldn’t be necessary, but war has existed since the beginning of man,” he said. “The Bible speaks of war constantly. King David was one of the greatest warriors. It shouldn’t be a necessity, but it’s a reality.”
Based on Associated Press and cantonrep.com articles
You sound so bitter. When attacking someone, your point of view is lost, so lonley tho shall remain, how sad when all else are so glad and rejoicing in life itself.
Broad and spacious is the road leading off into distruction, and many thre are on it, where, narrow is the road leading to eternal life, and few there are on it.Perhaps one of the most diffacult things a true Christian can do is to adhear to the teachings of our Loard, Jesus Christ.
We are in a spritual battle, transformed to flesh. Too truly show love and compassion, we can’t be poiting a weapon and another human being in an attempt to win that person over to our side.Yes wars have been faught from the beginning of time, ever since satin was cast out from his heavenly abode, when he once enjoyed the favor of his father Jehovah.
How very painful it must have been for the parents of these two young men to see them turn and join forces with the opponent of Jehovah.
Who can truly say with any certainty whether or not the Witnesses are the true agents of Jehovah? I only can look to see who I believe is following the scriptures to the best of their ability. If there is any other than the Witnesses, please advise.
No one is perfect and it is not fair to judge the whole body by the actions of a few. I’m disfellowshipped myself and sometimes wonder about just how authentic the scriptures are. I can find several passages and events that just don’t add up.For one, when Jesus was attempting to pick a piece of fruit from another persons tree and he couldn’t reach it, so he cursed it to rot. First, he was stealing, second, he showed contempt.
There is a book written by L.P. Dugger intitled ” The Man Who Owned The Hogs ” Mr. Dugger spent fifty years in his research, writting and re-writting. The New testament story of the Greek whose hogs were corrupted by Christ… “the unclean sprits went out, and entered into the swine”… provides the background for this biting, urbane satire. Having lost his livelihood, raising hogs for the Roman tables in Judea, Demias first debates then competes with Jesus in what he calls, “the religion business.” In the tradition of Swift and Volaire, Leonard Dugger has has prepared a classical and elegant parable that will infuriate some readers, delight others, and impress everyone. The Western world has been grappling with the meaning of the Gospels for over two thousand years… the educated Greeks and Romans of the first century felt the same distaste for religon we find in our own age. Mr. Dugger’s engaging novel cast light on Christ from two disparate, contradictory, yet somehowfundamental points of view… the struggle between the desire to believe in something grater than ourselves and the equally powerful fear of being fooled…If were clever, we may find a way of letting it lead us towards wisdom.If you would like to where to find this novel, contact me.
yep this how it goes with the jw,s
this story arbout to make me cry a soldier going to war and return and have not even his mom and dad there just al alone ,no father or mother day to tell there son we love and misst you and we glade you are alright.
this all what the had to say.there is no real love i been there know all arbout it.
but know what wehn i would knew arbout this before i would go there and tell this man that i love him in christ and there is somone thiking arbout him and care arbout this young soldier.
i would be his parants i could not go to sleep at night and i would be so ashamed of my self.
i know his parants love there son this is the sad thing arbout it ,but the love the watchtower more and the care more arbout there good standing in the kingdomhall than arbout there son.but inside his parants heart the love there son and i know they do and i know this hurt it tham not going to greed there son wehn the returnt from iraq.is not the smal jw fault is the wts is doing this to this people is so sad.
but im proud of there son he was reaserching the wts and knew this wts is all a mass.
we have to keep this people in ouer prayers so that christ will open there eyes what the real truh is.
Nastasha, If you are a JW’s you have been brain washed therefore you cannot think for yourself.
If you are a JW your mind is being controlled. Mind-control is most effective when people think they are exercising free will, but if the person is programmed to act as a self-regulator, then the control is really successful. Most Witnesses will argue that they exercise free choice, but if I offer you a choice from a selection, strictly limited by me, is that really a choice? Picture yourself in an airplane and at meal time the steward will come and ask you “Chicken or beef?” Is that really a choice? NO, it is an illusion of free choice and it is effective because you are led to believe that your can choose. Witnesses have their choices very limited in many areas, but still they think they have a choice when in fact choices are made for them. Armies control people. Basic training reprograms the soldier’s mind to do the will of the Army under special conditions, but in civilian life, the recruit is allowed freedom of expression and choice (JW do not outside the Kingdom Hall have free choice). Children are controlled by parents (or they used to be!), but this is temporary and the child breaks free in adolescence to stand alone, and parents are happy to see their children grow to maturity and become INDEPENDENT of their necessary control. Unfortunately witnesses will never have this freedom; choices are always made for them, but most of them never realize this. Let us suppose that your mind is controlled. Would you know it? How could you? Surely the whole point of mind-control is that the person being controlled is unaware of it. Does a puppet know he is being controlled? NO! Still he moves happily. You are taught that Satan the Devil is the ruler of this world and everything, everyone on this planet, except Jehovah’s Witnesses, is under his control. The Witnesses attend meetings three times each week plus perhaps, 20 minutes before and after each gathering. During that time, the ideas and language of Jehovah’s Witnesses are continually reiterated. Witnesses rely upon the Writing Committee of the “faithful slave” to research for them. This is encouraged by the leadership. Regarding personal study, The Watchtower said, “do some spiritual digging in order to begin getting the very knowledge of Jehovah’s heavenly organization” (w15/6 98) where is this “digging” to be done? In the Bible? NO. But the Watchtower Index.If you ever want to memorize something, sing it. It is a very effective way to learn and remember written material. One note or phrase can help you recall a whole song that you have not sung for years. (”Baa, baa, black sheep, have you…..”) All of the 225 songs used in Witness meetings are written by Jehovah’s Witnesses to avoid the influence of so called “false religion” in the hymns of the Christian church (this does not prevent Witness writers “borrowing” musical phrases and themes). Each week at Witness meetings, six songs in total are sung and Witnesses are “encouraged” to sing these as part of their worship and to listen to the “up-building” music of Kingdom Melodies at other times. When listening to these tapes, the words of the songs inevitably come to mind. Music is a very powerful influence as the Society itself is aware – it discourages listening to popular “worldly” music. Does the leadership control other information? Yes, most effectively. It never actually forbids the reading of any material, but “advises”, “encourages”, “reasons with”, the faithful Witness to avoid material, which as they say “is harmful to you.” If, in research on the internet, you find facts at odds with what you have been taught, will you explain these away by saying that they are lies created to mislead you?How do you view people who are not Witnesses? Do you believe they are immoral and dishonest? Do you disbelieve the stories about Jehovah’s Witnesses who have committed fraud, child abuse, rape and other crimes? Do you think that they were never “proper” Jehovah’s Witnesses? Do you try to convince yourself that they were “never really in the truth”? The facts show that some active and approved Witnesses are dishonest, yet you still have contact with them. Suppose that you dare to criticize something connected with “Jehovah’s organization” – what will happen? Won’t other Witnesses quickly withdraw from you because “you are discouraging”? “Read God’s Word the Holy Bible Daily”. Witnesses are encouraged to study the Bible, but they are told that they cannot understand it unless it is explained to them. And by whom? By the “faithful and discreet slave” composed of about 5, 000 spirit-anointed” men and women worldwide, but represented by only a dozen men in Brooklyn. If they are the faithful and discrete slave how come the instructions only come from the 12 ?At the end of every assembly, a speaker from the national headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses usually gives an inspiring talk relating how “Jehovah has blessed his people in xyz country”- usually involving numerical increases and experiences in various lands. These talks, and others on assembly programmers, are often punctuated by enthusiastic “spontaneous applause” from a claque, cued by expressions such as “Isn’t that something we are all very happy about Brothers?” (Applause) Have you been told that the New World Translation is the best of all Bible translations? Do you believe that only Jehovah’s Witnesses, as a special group of people, were chosen by God, to “preach the good news before the end comes”? Although the Bible warns Christians not to judge others since we are all sinners, Jehovah’s Witnesses do this all the time. It is reasoned that, although we cannot judge the inner man, we can know his “heart condition” (spirituality) by his words and actions – “out of the heart’s abundance the mouth speaks”. That is enough for Jehovah’s Witnesses. Those who do not attend all meetings are “weak” or uncommitted unless they have exceptional reasons. Even in the case of severe disability, every effort is made to attend meetings and assemblies – in wheelchairs or on beds and stretchers if necessary, so that the show can go on.If a man works shifts, he will be encouraged to find other employment and if he wishes to gain a position as elder, he really must attend the Kingdom Hall regularly. Tales are told of Witnesses traversing crocodile-infested rivers or terrain frequented by dangerous animals to attend meetings, while The Watchtower encourages swapping of unpopular shifts with fellow-employees so that Witnesses do not miss meetings. And a woman “paid a fellow-worker to cover her shift so that she could be free to attend these important meetings” (w1/9 98) Are Jehovah’s Witnesses “brainwashed” to the point of not being able to think for themselves? Yes, definitely. Witness converts soon learn that they should answer “question and answer” meeting parts “in their own words”. This means that they should not read answers verbatim from the paragraphs of The Watchtower or study book being used. Instead they should rephrase their answers. This does not mean that they will answer in their own words because they will still conform to the well-understood jargon phrases of Jehovah’s Witnesses e.g. “Babylon the Great” which is the “world empire of false religion” instead of “all religion in this world which does not worship Jehovah through his organization and, according to the Society, has pagan origins from ancient Babylon If you stay in the organization,. The longer you vacillate, the more difficult it is to leave. If you do not act soon, you will slip back into inertia and, before long, you will be passively swallowing all the spiritual junk “food” again, as fast as the “faithful steward” can serve it. The Watchtower claims to be the bridge between God and mankind but unfortunately the only bridge they have is Brooklyn Bridge.
Iam rather upset about the staements made that Jehovah’s witnesses cannot think for themselves.
On the contrary Jehovah’s witnesses are probably the only people who think clearly in this disgusting world.
If Jehovah gave us life we should see fit that we give him the praise he deserves, why support a football team that only improves your life a little and not praise the spirit that gave you life in the first place.
The Bible does not tell us how to live our lives it is merely guidelines on how to live a happy life, that is why Jehovah’s Witness families are so happy. And just because a few witnesses turn out bad it doesn’t mean we are all like that and the elders of a congregation disfellowship the people who do wrong.
We love our god because we want to, not because we have to and it makes us very happy.
To Anonymous:—Mistakes? No, not you (jw’s), you guys could never make mistakes. You are the only religion on earth directed by the holy spirit and backed by the true god. There is no way in my mind you ever making mistakes. SARCASM INTENDED!
Anonymour:
Just got new light:———Few Witnesses realize, however, that the WT once allowed for military service. The Aug. 1, 1898 WT on page 231 says, “There is no command in the Scriptures against military service,” and, “It would be quite right to shoot, not to kill.” The April 15, 1903 WT on page 120 says, “There could be nothing against our conscience in going into the army. Wherever we would go we could take the Lord with us, the Captain of our salvation, and wherever we would go we could find opportunities to serve him and his cause.”
This 2 messages were a reply to fri by E
At least we fix our mistakes.
There’s no page # 2345
To: FYI
No. I’m not trying to scare you, but since you mentioned it.
You don’t have to be scared, for the devil or God to take action.
A person being scare or not means nothing.
To Fred:—If your tactic is to scare me you are barking at the wrong tree. I am not afraid of God nor am I scared of the Devil.
To: FYI
Be careful! your comments are sounding a little like this scripture below:
3 For YOU know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4 and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep [in death], all things are continuing exactly as from creation’s beginning.” (2 Peter 3:3-4)
Focus on these words:
8 However, let this one fact not be escaping YOUR notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. 9 Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance. 10 Yet Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be discovered. (2 Peter 3:8-10)
To: Ace-of-stares——As according to your bible: Luke —“22: 49 When those about him saw what was going to happen, they said: “Lord, shall we strike with the sword?” 50 A certain one of them even did strike the slave of the high priest and took off his right ear.”Interestingly, the scripture does say: “shall WE strike” that does imply that more than one person had a sword.
I will agree with you that Jesus did instruct Peter to ‘return his sword to his place’. Jesus could have said: Peter what the hell were you thinking, don’t you know that true followers of mine are not supposed to carry a sword! Throw that away or I will disfellowshipp you! But did he? Any ideas why Jesus didn’t do that?
I find it amazing how you (jw’s) can go on interpreting the bible to support your ideology. So, just to refresh your memory please check below.
——–“The Watchtower 1898 August 1 p. 2345 (There is) no command in the Scriptures against military service”——-
—— The first president of the Watchtower Society (WTS) did not consider it wrong for Christians to perform military service or alternative service.——–
——- The second WTS president forbade both military service and alternative service for Jehovah’s Witnesses (JWs). This rule, enforced for some sixty years, placed thousands of JWs around the world in prisons and some died as a result.——-
——- In The Watchtower (WT) of May 1 1996 the WTS’s stance on alternative service was reversed. Alternative service is again permitted! ——-
The WTS has made thousands of changes in doctrines and interpretations in the past 80 years. Yet it also teaches that JWs alone are the “true religion” and says of true religion: “its teachings must all be in full harmony with God’s Word.” (The Truth that leads to Eternal Life 1968 p.130)
How can all these changes be in harmony with God? Hardly!
You are entitled to be in your own cult and change whatever policies you wish, however do not go around claming to be the only representatives of the true God on this earth. That does give God a bad name!
This circular argument does not really prove anything — sure, “the Bible doesn’t say that Cornelius renounced his position in the army,” but, in like fashion, it also does not say that he ”DID NOT” renounce military service, making this particular passage of the Bible amiguous at best.
For a clearer understanding that Cornelius most likely DID resign from the military at some point after his acceptance of Christ, one need look no further than the words of the “Early Church Fathers” themselves and the words of their contemporary Roman philosophers who witnessed the lifestyles and attitudes within the “Christian Community.” One of the biggest complaints against our early Christian brethren was their utter refusal to take up arms for the Emperor & ‘defend the Empire.’ As the early church fathers expressed, once one became a follower of Christ one also sought to emulate his ways: i.e., the “Prince of *PEACE*”, he who instructed Peter to ‘return his sword to his place’ and not take it up again, he who explained to Pilate that his followers were citizens of a *heavenly* “kingdom…*NOT* of this world” in which his followers “*WOULD HAVE* fought” on his behalf, etc.
The early Christian family understood this “peaceful,” “non-violent” and “neutral” aspect of their adopted faith perfectly, as Barnes confirms when he wrote: “…until the time of Marcus Aurelius (161-180 A.D.), no Christian became a soldier; and no soldier, after becoming a Christian, remained in military service.” (”A History of Christianity” – 1947)
TO FRED: —- FYI, If someone has the right to vote that means someone has a choice, of course you would not know that as choices are always made for you by the mother ship.
Iraq might not be any better now but how do you know it will not be any better in the future? Did Jehovah’s witnesses just have some new light we don’t know about?
No, we should not put our trust in a bunch of guns; we should put our trust in your god Jehovah, right?
As for God stepping in to fix things, when is this going to be? Let me guess it is just around the corner. You have been saying that crap for too long and still nothing. You have predicted it in 1914, 1925, 1975 and before the millennium, and so far nothing. With your tract record do you think we can believe you? If so, based on what?
Nobody deserves to die. But doesn’t the bible say help your fellow men. Sometimes to make things right it is not always easy. What if you had family members who lived in a government like Iraq’s? Nobody knows if this will help Iraq or not.
lest we forget Cornelius whom was a roman soldier
whom him and his whole family when heard the gospel put their faith in Jesus . the Bible doesnt say renounced his position in the army , acts chapter 10.
5 Trust in Jehovah with all your heart and do not lean upon your own understanding. (Proverbs 3:5)
This world is filled with people independent thinkers and look how it turned out.
Excellent comment Fri, you took the words right out of my mouth. Just to add one thing, JW’s are somewhat oppressed as the WTS tells them how to think, act, walk, etc. like the legion of robots they are. Individuality is not tolerated, I mean what do you think happens to the rank & file if one were to disagree with a WTS doctrine? After all, not one of their doctrines can be proven! Consider their concepts on 1914, not one historian or scholar agrees with the dates they set in which to determine the 1914 outcome. In fact the WTS changed the date by one year many years ago when it was brought to their attention that their math was wrong. God does not need an earthly organization to have his agenda completed. The WTS should stop taking the place of Christ and start revolutionalizing their doctrines & how they govern their people. We take for granted being able to discern for ourselves, those who utilize spirituality in their lives by having a relationship with the Lord can make it through life happy & content. However, JW’s need the WTS to make it through the day, as they can’t think for themselves. If the WTS was brought to it’s knees, perhaps penniless after long lost battles in the courts paying off victims of their pedophiles, we would have a large group of people milling around aimlessly without direction! It is almost laughable, sorry to say.
FYI -
Who cares if someone has a chance to vote?
THis world hasn’t got better. Sure we have the MIGHT Computer now, but now there’s computer crimes.
There are new crimes everyday. with new ideas and Inventions comes new crimes.
Iraq is not a better place and will not be a better place when the troops leave.
USA and the rest of the world will not be a better place until God steps in a fixes things once and for all.
Don’t put your trust in a bunch of people with guns. Put your trust in God.
I don’t think the troops or anyone deserve to die.
Lots of others don’t support killing, not just the JW’s.
Do you think God foreknew that Christianity would not
just be confined to Israel where Jesus started, but spread
international?
I do.
Thats why Jesus’ new command to “love your enemy” was
commanded in the Bible. (or the “Christians” would be
killing themselves, cause they lived on the other side of
the fense all over the globe) Now, the way I see it, Jesus was on to something really big here cause
if everybody did what he said, THATS NO MORE WAR!
And nobody [unless their evil or sick] wants to kill
or be killed.
It makes sense to me, Jesus’ words there.
Your comments about the JW’s don’t reflect that point
by Jesus.
Causing harm to Amish, or JW’s or anybody for that
matter just aint the right, Christian thing to do.
I understand how you feel though. But, you know
what I’m saying.
There’s different kinds of Christians, some kill.
Some don’t. Thats all. Everybody got to read the
good book and do something good. Right?
I think God would want that too.
TO: FRED!
Fred, because of courageous people like the 2 brothers, the people in Iraq sometime in the future will live in a free democratic country that one day will be able to vote for who they choose to. They will have the right to not salute the flag, the right to not join the military. The right that people like you (Jehovah’s witnesses) take for granted.
You should be ashamed of yourself. The government should gather you all (Jehovah’s witnesses) together and send you to Iraq under the rulership of Sadam Hussein to see how quickly you would change your minds.
You are a bunch of sorry cowards who take the freedom you have for granted. Shame on you for such a remark.
The 2 brothers could have chosen the easy way that you took but instead many chose to loose their lives for the freedom of others.
There is no greater love than surrender ones life on behalf of others.
I take off my hat to the courageous actions of the 2 brothers. Shame to the cowards JW’s
Welcome Back!
Thanks for starting a war!
Thanks for bombing innocent kids!
you got that right! only Jehovah is quilifyied to judge all
What you have written would be more convincing if you were less specific in your attack on donmination. Each religious organization on our planet holds real estate and also publishes it’s own literature. You are correct that we will be held accountable for our stance, for or against, in this war and the murder that is justified during it’s time, whether by a higher being or by our own concience which is why we but be stead fast in our faith that we are moral and trying to live well.
i don’t understand what you are saying here. please explain.
thanks
Don’t confuse “Truth” with “Facts” “Truth” is subjective, i.e. what may be true for one person may not be true for another or what was ‘truth’ today may not be “the truth” tomorrow. The “Generation of 1914 will not pass away…” sound familiar?
However Fact is that which conforms to reality. Fact is that which is real today yesterday and tomorrow. It does not change.
“Bible Truth” as you put it is one of the most subjective things I have ever studied in my 31 years as a “Witness”.
Yes, God may be the “judge of all” as you put it but in his stead are self appointed men who oversee other appointed men that “judge” in place of God in the Congregation. These are the ones who decide behind closed doors if you are “repentant” or otherwise. The “private” informaton goes through a chain of distribution: The Elders who are supposed to keep it quiet, next the Elders wives who they more often than not discuss the matter with, next the Sisters who are close friends to the Elders wives, these Sisters in turn next tell their husbands or boy friends, they in turn tell their friends and in a matter of a few days, most everyone who is ‘in the click’ knows about what went on according to the interpretation of the Elder who leaked it out. Is this true in all cases? No. but this is the reality that I have been witness to in all the 15 or so Cong. I have attended over the years. This happened to me a couple of times for simply asking the wrong questions to an Elder friend of mine. The meetings were ‘private’ but within 2 days of those meetings, I was asked if I was going to “leave the Truth”.
You say “…time will tell.” well over 120 years has passed for the WBTS. What has time told us about it’s history, it’s teachings, it’s special changing version of Biblical “Truth”? Time has ALREADY spoken volumes about the Org. The problem is, new ones don’t konw it’s history, don’t want to know, told not to ask, not to look. Back in 1997 at an assembly I couldn’t believe my ears when the speaker said that ‘faithful Brothers will not engage in “…independent thinking.”
What are you going to do when the WBTS changes it’s 1914 doctrine to mean something other than is understood today? What will happen when newer ones in the Hall start denying that the new “light” on the matter was any different than the old “light”?
I remember the talks about 1975, I was there, I listened and understood the strong admonition to set aside education, having children, buying homes, saving money etc. etc. because the “clock is ticking Brothers….tick …tick….tick….” Now I have had elders who came into the “Truth” after the 1975 disaster who deny that anything ever happened! How did they come up with that Idea? Because the “Truth” today is different than the “Truth” of yestarday. The FACT was that I WAS THERE AND IT DID HAPPEN AND MANY WERE STUMBLED! Not because as the WBTS put it, ‘…SOME read into the words more than they should have.’ No, we believed what we were TOLD about it as every J.W. active in the Hall does today. That my friend is Reality. Glean whatever “Truth” from it you wish..(whatever stirs your coolaid). Cheers.
Join the club. British soldiers do not get any big welcome back on their return. There efforts are not appreciated by most of the British population never mind the U.S. media, still being a good army is not liked by any one are they.
Ian
The words of Jesus come to mind: “Those who live by the sword will die by the sword.”
I truly believe that it is up to each one of us to decide if going to war is a just cause or not. Surly if we do not defend ourselves and our family, what sort of person are we? However should we take up the “sword” as it were, I feel we are on our own and we my well die. However, this is and should be OUR burden not some publishing and real estate holding corporation pretending to be a religion.
It is unfortunate that the Iraq war, as is now admitted , was founded on lies from the Bush admin. If it was a just cause or not, time will tell. Those who chose to go will have to live with his or her actions. Those who died those who lived and those who chose not to go All have to answer to God in the end and not some self appointed sudo-religious corporate conglomerate located in Brooklen NY.
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This is 1st draft of some info i am going to send out to the Islamic/muslim internet world. What do You think.
The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society also, known as Jehovah’s Witnesses are typically known as a Christian religion.
Shortly after the events of 9/11 the Watchtower published via-internet information on terrorism that was followed by an emergency reprinting of the same and distributed to the general public through there local businesses known as kingdom halls here in the USA.
In October of 2001, a duly authorized representative of the Watchtower “Ciro Aulicinon’ gave a public speech identifying the Islamic Empirer as the aggressive terrorist ones of Babylon the Great. (Empior of false religion)
*** Public Address by Watchtower Bethel representative Ciro Aulicino ***
*** October 2001, South Carolina, USA ***
“What Does the Future Hold for Us?”
[first few words missing from recording] . . . horrific tragedy struck the United States. An attack from a religious enemy…These terrorists can do a lot of damage…Look at the map and see how big the Islamic empire is… It is the most aggressive…Now when the nations begin devastating Babylon the Great…including the aggressive terroristic ones…”
http://quotes.watchtower.ca/WhatDoestheFutureHoldforUs.htm
In 2004, The Watchtower held a convention where the focus included the effects of terrorism on religion.
“…In the face of what Jehovah’s Witnesses members call negative publicity surrounding religion because of terrorists…This year’s convention will focus on world events and how sometimes religion is viewed negatively because of terrorism, said Lawrence O’Dett, the news overseer for the Pontiac Michigan District Convention…With the threat of terrorism…For instance, a car bomb happens…”
http://www.theoaklandpress.com/stories/061004/loc_jehovah001.shtml
In 2005, The Watchtower through it’s duly authorized representative, J.R.Brown, director of public information for the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society asserted, ‘We’re truly neutral’ with respects to conflicts of men and even the parents of the solider in this article asserts, ‘Thomas and Mia Woodliff…As you know, we are Jehovah’s Witnesses and are neutral as to the political and military affairs of the world” http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/index.php/jws-vs-the-world/sons-of-jehovahs-witnesses-return-from-iraq-without-welcome/#more-200
Watchtower’s Definition to Terrorism
Ciro Auliuino points to the size of the Islamic empire and it’s aggressiveness which it engaged in on 9/11 as evidence of scriptural terrorism.
O’Dett refered to car bombings as an act of terrorism.
Other definitions to Terrorism
There is no single, universally accepted definition of terrorism..Terrorism by nature is difficult to define…Even the U.S. government cannot agree on one single definition. The old adage, “One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is still alive and well… http://www.terrorism.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=FAQ&file=index&myfaq=yes&id_cat=1&categories=General+Questions&parent_id=0#1
Do you feel that terrorists are “Freedom fighters” or criminals?
“…As far as being freedom fighters—that’s a moral judgement beyond the purview of objective academic research.”
Nov. 11, 2005 – Hany Abu-Assad is nervious…The director is Palestinian, the audience is Israeli, and his film is about the lives and moral struggles of two suicide bombers…It wouldn’t be the first time a film about terrorists, or freedom fighters (depending which side of the wall you’re on), has been shown in Israel…” http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9997012/site/newsweek/
Based on the opinions that appear, could a person conclude that the Watchtower is not as neutral in the political and military conflicts of men as the would have us believe.
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i have followed your write up about JW for sometime now. It is ridiculous about peoples comment about JW. they are ignorant of the BIBLE TRUTH. Let them know that GOD is the judge of all and He knows the true religion today. Time will tell .
What better way to cover up a big lie then call it the truth! Just like with the WTBTS what is wrong they call right what is right they call wrong. Let me tell you what the bible really says. No it does not mean that this is what it really means. Blah Blah Lie Lie!
I grew up as a Jehovah’s Witness and decided to disassociate myself from this Organisation 4 years ago. i’m 28 now. The contact to my parents remains unchanged… i talk to them every week, visit them, etc. But since the day I left, my grandparents never talked to me again. I even called them once to attend with them the annual Memorial of Christ’s death (which is celebrated in Easter, and a sacred occasion for Jehovah’s Witnesses). Their response was: “If you want to go, go for yourself, but please, don’t come to our Congregation, we don’t want the brothers and sisters to see us with you” Is this loving? Is this human? Is this even Christian? No christian Church teaches to reject family members who just don’t want to continue practicing their religion… I did nothing bad, I did not sin, neither did I reject God…
Of course, none of my former Jehovah’s Witnesses friends talk to me anymore. When I left this Church, I felt alone, no friends, no family… just my parents where there. And soooooooo much time free now: no meetings, no preaching, nobody to hang out with…
The Bible says: “If anyone makes the statement: “I love God”, and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot be loving God, whom he has not seen”
1.John 4:20
Yes, they will say: “We still love him”… but only if you go back to their faith. Love, if not put in practice, is useless… THIS IS NOT REAL LOVE…
I hope the Jehovah’s Witnesses will apply John’s words to themselves one day, and leave their complete hypocresy and lies…
sincerely yours,
Marc from Spain.
Dear friends,
I have been a Jehovahs Witness since I was four years old. I was brought up by my dear parents in this religion. I have no resentment towards them. However I left about twenty years ago. I myself refused to do military service in the Swedish army when I was nighteen years old. I have the greatest admiration for the neutral stand of Jehovahs Wittnesses, especially under harsh condition, like during the Nazi regime in Germany. I really wish that all disputes in this world could be solved in a peaceful way. Unfortunately that is not the case. Sixtyfive years ago this world was threaten on all sides by Nazism, Fascism and Communism. The ones who delivered us from all this evil was the brave young men of England and America. I will always remember the enormous sacfrices by young American and English boys in this struggle. These boys had a long life ahead of them, but it was terminated at the age of twenty, sacfriced in front of the guns of fanatic Japanese and German soldiers. If that sacrifice had not been done, I do not know how this world would have been today. Therefore, I plead, please try to understand the parents of these soldier who went Iraq. They live in the best of worlds, but for their boys they live in the world of today. Whoever do wrong, please forgive them, and may they come together and try to understand and reconciliate.
Leif Leikin
Wait until Armageddon and say God Bless America if you can….A JW will never regret to leave the Truth…
Okay…I found this site because I was doing a search and research on Jehovah Witness. Why was I doing this research? Because I was condemned by a JW for my spiritual belief(s). Not only did I feel judged by this person, but it made me very angry. I have been studying many different religions over the past year and while I AM not a religious person, I am very spiritual and I do not judge the beliefs of others. In fact I have taken an ecclectic approach and I view all religions as a path to one common goal: To accept and know that we are all ONE created by the same source and our Creator wants us to live a life of happiness and bliss. In reading the different articles on this blog (and not to pass judgement) I do not resonate with any of the teachings of the JW except that they do acknowledge God. They seem to leave out the fact that GOD gave us all free will and that in the teachings of Christ…we are to love one another UNCONDITIONALLY> I have a gay daughter, so does that mean I disassociate her? I THINK NOT! If one of my children enlisted in the military…while I would not be happy about it, I definitely would respect their decision to fight for the freedom that I and everyone else in this country seem to sleep comfortably with at night. ( However, do not get me started on the subject ot war. That is a whole different topic for another day).
One of the reasons I strayed from the church is that in my heart I feel that many churches have lost their connection and the true reason why churches are an important part of our society. My church is my relationship with God and His many holy messengers , Saints and Masters. My church is loving you, loving the homeless person and even lovng the person behind me with road rage! I can give praise and send prayers of love, thanks, and hope for more understanding in the universe just as easy in my backyard while I connect with nature
and give thanks for all the beauty God gives us daily as I can sitting in a church. So I guess to really express what I AM saying here is…..there is no right or wrong way to a path, and that we all should look to each other and respect which ever way brings us closer to God. Whether it is of the Jewish faith, Catholic, Muslim, Buddhist….it does not matter as long as we all remember it is ABOUT GOD. The religions that say “It is our way or the highway” are truly in for a HUGE disappointment.
May the divine spark and true essence of God in each of us radiate like a beacon in the night across this entire planet. Namaste.
Yesterday was Veteran’s Day as you know. I was proud to go to Bushnell Cemetary in FLorida and stand up and sing GOD BLESS AMERICA and be proud to be associated with people who protect our great country. I am proud to thank all of you service people for my freedom and thank GOD for my freedom from JW Organization! It is truly when I got out and started healing that I ‘knew the truth that would set me free”! I served 17 years active duty as a JW … now THAT was a shameful waste of time.
Again, thank you soldiers…from a Mom who is truly grateful for what you have done!
GOD BLESS YOU!
I know He will, He is One nice Guy once you get out and find Him…not the punishing one that is still condemning those inside jumping through endless hoops!
I highly agree with the comments above. I’m in the same situation as the fleshly brothers mentioned in the article.
I was a JW for 8 years (the only one in my family, thank God), and 2 years ago I decided to enlist in the Marine Corps. When I told the elders in the congregation, I was basically told that I couldn’t be part of the congregation any longer, that I’d be disassociating myself. I did it, and even though I’ve had second thoughts (thinking or feeling that I’m living in sin, that I’m gonna die in Armaggedon because I’m disobeying Jehovah), I’ve found out that you gotta be yourself and when beliefs like these don’t make sense, it’s best to honestly look at life and see it for what it’s worth.
I’m not a bad Marine. I’m still on Active Duty here in Japan. I’ve been associating myself with a Pentecostal Church outside of my base, and I am accepted as I am, not as a sinner (which I am regardless) but as a Christian. That’s what it means to be Christian.
I can only say, I thank God my family never wanted to become JW. Otherwise, it’d be a nightmare at home.
I must comment on the mixed emotions i get reading this article. Being active in the military and from a J.W. family I understand the pain brought on by being disowned for not having the same beliefs as your family. It is a pain that is hard to live with and an anger that is hard to grasp. I at times wish my family had a part in my life. However, I still see them for what they are. A person who turns his back on others for a difference in beliefs, a person who is unyeilding to others, harsh, and cruel; because a person who tells you they love you and then tells you to change to suit them is a child, or worse a tryant. I have not and will not change myself to feel the supposed love of my family and when I die, be it in deployment or old age, I would not have them cry at my funeral. It is a shame upon me what my family has done, but the idea of bringing change upon myself to fit their plan and gain their acceptence sickens me.
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Hey Watchtower god(s) and you followers. Who will You blame now.
QUOTE: (The parents of the solder) “In a written statement, Thomas and Mia Woodliff responded:…As you know, we are Jehovah’s Witnesses and are neutral as to the political and military affairs of the world.”
Interestingly, these parents although claiming to be neutral support the focus of the 2004 District convention.
QUOTE: “This year’s convention will focus on world events and how sometimes religion is viewed negatively because of terrorism, said Lawrence O’Dell, the news overseer for the Pontiac Michigan District Convention.”
http://www.theoaklandpress.com/stories/061004/loc_jehovah001.shtml
The use of the word terrorist or terrorism is biased and indicates you are not neutral for the simple reason that these people do not view themselves as terrorists but, it is the opposing side(s) that have tagged them as terrorists and if you try in resorting to the dictionary definition of the word(s) in an attempt to reason away the uncomfortable feelings then, you would have to include all sides in a conflict as terrorists which the reprinted and distrubted magazine on terrorism, shortly after 9/11, certainly did not sugjest on the front cover, in word or picture.
Greetings: First question for the Woodliff parents! Are you a lover of the truth? The Woodlif parents, claim to be christians! They are not christians, because a christian is one who believes, that Jesus Christ is God, and the Jehovah Witnesses do not believe Jesus Christ is God, so they are not christians! The Jehovah Witnesses have a Kingdom Hall and not a Church! In the NWT they translate church, to congregation! Besides that, the greek word for church is and the ecclesia, are the called out ones, and the called out ones, are the ones who believed, what Paul taught in Corienth, which is the death, buriel, and bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ, and not a spirtitual resurrection, as the Watchtower teaches! If you are followers of Jesus Christ, According to John 1:1 in the NWT, translates God to a lower class g, god! So does that make Jesus Christ a true God or a false god? Yours in Christ, Edgar
You are one sad, lonely guy Rado. Don’t you have anything better to do with your time than putting up your one-sided pathetic attempts at journalism on the net?
Get a life.
Hi:
One of the reasons Jehovah’s Witnesses are so unpopular with the world is that Witnesses do not go in the army. However, Witnesses seem to forget that Cornelius, the first Gentile Christian, was a Roman soldier at the time of his baptism (see Acts chapter 10). Witnesses have been bitterly persecuted on this issue. However they are not being persecuted because they are Christians-they are being persecuted because they do not follow the Bible on this issue. As we approach November 11 (Remembrance Day for those who have fallen in war), I think of those brave men who fought and died for me in World War II so that I could be free and not live in Nazi tyranny. If everyone had Jehovah’s Witnesses’ attitude towards war, Osama Bin Laden would be ruling the world right now and Christians would be put in concentration camps and be killed. Yes, you can be a soldier in a literal sense and a soldier of Christ too. That is not to say there are unjust wars, such as the war in Iraq. Some wars are just, such as the war in Afghanistan.
Well, as far as I know primitive christians were also pacifists, like Jehovah’s witnesses. I couldn’t imagine a christian in first century hailing its relatives or member of families that belonged to roman army after one expedition in the name of Rome domination.
BTW, I believe this war is a Bush hoax or even a imperialistic demonstration of U.S.A. “right-to-be-the-ruler-of-the-world” besides UN objectives and goals.
This spetacle is a fool demonstration of strongness for every person with a good sense outside USA (and even inside). The poor soldiers are doing nothing that they can be proud about and the Jehovah’s witnesses are not the only one that not applaude even those of their home with this.
I am surprised that MR. J.R. BROWN did not mention that the W.T.B.T.S. was a cult and have their own rules for everything. If the rules don’t fit they change them. They say the UNITED NATIONS is a beast in the book of revelation, but they were supporting them, until they got caught and resigned. The way he explained the two young men’s position now, is avioding the truth. They are in the same position, as a disfelowshipped person. They have flip-flopped on just about everything they say they believe in. The dates they have given for the end of this system, have been altered many times, and now they have most of the rank and file scared to death that JEHOVAH will kill them if they don’t do what they say. The government should make them all pay tax on every move they make and they would not have the money they do. After all, it is the money they are after, and it gives them the power to brain wash people. Some one should ask MR. BROWN “what his priority is”? Would it be the money,or would it be the power that the money brings, or is it the ruling power he thinks he will have in the new system that they are hoping to see. Everyone should respect very highly, the thing that these two brothers have done. Wouldn’t MR. BROWN be surprised if the two brothers were doing what GOD wanted them to do and he wasn’t? The rules that they come up with are a twisting of the scriptures to their own benefit. They accuse everyone else of doing just that and they do it all the time. They use the W.T.B.T.S. as an intermediator between GOD and man, instead of CHRIST. Hats off to the two brothers.
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You are correct. I did not read the article. Seeing the cover with the word or words terrorism/terrorist was enough for me to be convienced they are biased and not neutral no matter what the mag says inside.
Interestingly, the emergency reprinting of this mag shortly after 9/11 has been conviently removed from their website archives.
Mags,
To whom are you addressing your comment/question?
If you are replying to Junipertree, perhaps you could be more specific as some of us could benefit from the details of the article on Terrorists/Terrorism. Curious to see why the article was written.
Evariste
Get, real! Did you read the article? Obviously not!
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Although, ‘J.R. Brown, director of public information for the Watchtower Bible Tract Society’ asserts, ‘We’re truly neutrel’ with respects to ‘conflicts of men’ yet, shortly after 9/11 the Watchtower god(s) had a past magazine published on their website and reprinted in hard copy for disseminating to the general public and the front page was the word terrorist or something like terrorism… The implication should be obvious, that the Watchtower god(s) did take a position in the events of 9/11 as a terrorist act yet, these people do not view themselves as terrorists but, it is the opposing side(s) that view them as terrorists thus, by putting the magazine up to the public, certainly was not an act of neutrality nor could it be construed that the Watchtower was seeking the peace of either of the side(s).
So, when the upper echelons of this institution provides timely information that headlines with a biased word(s) of a side in a conflict it shouldn’t be of a surprise if it’s members become involved or committed to one side or the other in a conflict of men.