Education

January 31st, 2005 | Posted in: Quotes, Do Not | Keywords: | 29 Comments



Education

*** Kingdom Ministry June 2001 for week starting July 2nd 2001 ***

[ Scan Available!]

15 min: Youths—Be Wise in Choosing Your Career. This is the first of three Service Meeting parts that will review Scriptural principles relates to supplemental education. Some Christian youths are pursuing secular careers through higher education, which is having a negative impact on their spirituality. This part is a discussion between two parents and their teenage son or daughter. The youth is at a point where a serious decision needs to be made about future goals. Although some may want to pursue financial advantages, prestige, or comforts of life, the family examine the Bible to see what it recommends. (See Young People Ask, pages 174-5; The Watchtower, August 15, 1997, page 21, and September 1, 1999, pages 19-21, paragraphs 1-3 and 5-6.) The youth agrees that it is wise to pursue a course in life that will serve him or her well in achieving theocratic goals to advance Kingdom interests.

[Emphasis Added]

*** Kingdom Ministry April 1999 p.8 ***

"What Should I Do?"

1 As a youth approaching adulthood, you might ask, ‘What should I do with my life?’ Christian youths want to expand their service to Jehovah in the ministry. But how can you do this while taking on the responsibilities of adulthood, which include providing for your own material needs? Finding the answer may not be easy.

2 Some youths become anxious when they look at the world’s economic situation and the forecasts for the future. They wonder: ‘Should I pursue additional secular education? Should I enter the full-time service right away?’ In order to make the right decision, a person needs to answer this question honestly, ‘What is my foremost interest in life?’ He must examine his motives.

3 What have you cultivated as your prime concern during your youth? Are you mainly interested in seeking financial advantage, or do you really want to use your life to advance Kingdom interests? A university degree does not guarantee success in the job market. As an alternative, many have acquired marketable job skills by means of apprenticeship programs, some vocational or technical school education, or short-term college courses that require a minimum of time and involvement.

4 Take Jehovah at His Word: An all-important fact to consider is the assurance from Jehovah God that he will provide for those who put Kingdom interests first in life. (Matt. 6:33) This is not an idle promise. Many brothers attending the Ministerial Training School earned college degrees prior to learning the truth. But what were they doing for secular work? Very few were pursuing the career for which they had been educated. Many were working in service-oriented fields, caring very well for their financial needs while pioneering. By expanding their activity in the ministry, they are receiving blessings far beyond anything monetary.

5 In deciding what you should do after graduation from high school, weigh all the factors and examine your motives carefully. For a balanced view of your choices, consider such information as appeared in Awake! of March 8, 1998, pages 19-21. Speak with your parents, the elders, your circuit overseer, and successful pioneers in your area. That will help you make a wise decision about what you should do with your life.—Eccl. 12:1, 13.

[Emphasis Added]

*** Watchtower November 1 1992 pp.17-21 Education With a Purpose ***

Education With a Purpose

[…]

Adequate Education

8 This seems, therefore, to be an appropriate time to consider the Christian’s attitude toward secular education. What Bible principles bear on this subject? First, in most countries proper submission to "Caesar" requires Christian parents to send their children to school. (Mark 12:17; Titus 3:1) As for young Witnesses, in their schoolwork they should remember Colossians 3:23, which states: "Whatever you are doing, work at it whole-souled as to Jehovah, and not to men." A second principle involved is that Christians should be able to support themselves, even if they are full-time pioneer ministers. (2 Thessalonians 3:10-12) If married, a man should be able to provide properly for his wife and any children that may be born, with a little extra to give to those in need and to support the local and worldwide preaching work.—Ephesians 4:28; 1 Timothy 5:8.

9 How much education does a young Christian need in order to respect these Bible principles and meet his Christian obligations? This varies from country to country. By and large, however, it seems that the general trend in many lands is that the level of schooling required to earn decent wages is now higher than it was a few years ago. Reports received from branches of the Watch Tower Society in different parts of the world indicate that in many places it is difficult to find jobs with decent wages after completing simply the minimum schooling required by law or in some countries even after finishing secondary or high school.

10 What is meant by "decent wages"? It does not indicate highly paid jobs. Webster’s Dictionary defines "decent" in this context as "adequate, satisfactory." What might be termed "adequate," for instance, for those who wish to be pioneer ministers of the good news? Such ones generally need part-time work to avoid putting "an expensive burden" upon their brothers or their family. (1 Thessalonians 2:9) Their wages might be termed "adequate," or "satisfactory," if what they earn allows them to live decently while leaving them sufficient time and strength to accomplish their Christian ministry.

11 What is often the situation today? It has been reported that in some countries many well-intentioned youngsters have left school after completing the minimum required schooling in order to become pioneers. They had no trade or secular qualifications. If they were not helped by their parents, they had to find part-time work. Some have had to accept jobs that required them to work very long hours to make ends meet. Becoming physically exhausted, they gave up the pioneer ministry. What can such ones do to support themselves and get back into the pioneer service?

A Balanced View of Education

12 A balanced view of education can help. For many young people of the world, education is a status symbol, something to help them climb the social ladder, the key to a prosperous, materialistic life-style. For others, schooling is a chore to be dispensed with as quickly as possible. Neither of these views is appropriate for true Christians. What, then, might be termed "a balanced view"? Christians should regard education as a means to an end. In these last days, their purpose is to serve Jehovah as much and as effectively as possible. If, in the country where they live, minimal or even high school education will only allow them to find jobs providing insufficient income to support themselves as pioneers, then supplementary education or training might be considered. This would be with the specific goal of full-time service.

13 Some have taken training courses that have opened up job opportunities enabling them to engage in or resume full-time service. One sister in the Philippines was the family breadwinner, but she wanted to pioneer. The branch reports: "She has been able to do this because she has received additional education to qualify as a certified public accountant." The same branch report stated: "We have quite a number who are studying and at the same time have been able to arrange their schedules to pioneer. Generally they become better publishers as they are more studious, provided they do not become overly ambitious in worldly pursuits." The last remark should give us reason to reflect. The purpose of the extra schooling, where this seems necessary, must not be lost sight of or change into a materialistic goal.

14 In a few countries, secondary schools provide vocational training that can prepare a young Christian for some trade or occupation by the time of graduation. Even when this is not the case, in some lands enterprising youngsters with only basic schooling do find part-time work that enables them to earn enough to pioneer. So no hard-and-fast rules should be made either for or against extra education.

15 Many who are now serving in responsible positions as traveling overseers, at the Society’s headquarters, or in one of the branches had only basic education. They were faithful pioneers, never stopped learning, received training, and have been entrusted with greater responsibilities. They have no regrets. On the other hand, some of their contemporaries chose to get a university education and fell by the wayside, subjugated by the faith-destroying philosophies and "wisdom of this world."—1 Corinthians 1:19-21; 3:19, 20; Colossians 2:8.

Counting the Cost

16 Who decides whether a young Christian should undertake further education or training? The Bible principle of headship comes into play here. (1 Corinthians 11:3; Ephesians 6:1) On this basis parents will surely want to guide their children in the choice of a trade or occupation and consequently in the amount of education that will be needed. In many countries educational and occupational choices have to be made early on during secondary education. That is the time when Christian parents and youths need to seek Jehovah’s direction in making a wise choice, with Kingdom interests uppermost in mind. Young people have different propensities and aptitudes. Wise parents will take these into account. All honest work is honorable, be it blue-collar or white-collar. While the world may elevate office work and disparage working hard with one’s hands, the Bible certainly does not. (Acts 18:3) So when parents and young Christians today, after carefully and prayerfully weighing the pros and cons, decide for or against postsecondary studies, others in the congregation should not criticize them.

17 If Christian parents responsibly decide to provide their children with further education after high school, that is their prerogative. The period of these studies would vary according to the type of trade or occupation selected. For financial reasons and in order to enable their children to get into the full-time service as quickly as possible, many Christian parents have chosen for them short-term study programs in vocational or technical schools. In some cases youths have needed to be apprenticed to some trade but always with a full life of service to Jehovah as the goal.

18 If additional courses are taken, certainly the motive should not be to shine scholastically or to carve out a prestigious worldly career. Courses should be chosen with care. This magazine has placed emphasis on the dangers of higher learning, and justifiably so, for much higher education opposes the "healthful teaching" of the Bible. (Titus 2:1; 1 Timothy 6:20, 21) Further, since the 1960’s, many schools of advanced learning have become hotbeds of lawlessness and immorality. "The faithful and discreet slave" has strongly discouraged entering that kind of environment. (Matthew 24:12, 45) It must be admitted, however, that nowadays youngsters meet up with these same dangers in high schools and technical colleges and even in the workplace.—1 John 5:19.

19 Should supplementary education be decided upon, a young Witness would do well, if at all possible, to take this while living at home, thus being able to maintain normal Christian study habits, meeting attendance, and preaching activity. At the outset a proper stand should also be taken on Bible principles. It should be remembered that Daniel and his three Hebrew companions were captives in exile when they were obliged to undertake advanced studies in Babylon, but they consistently kept their integrity. (Daniel, chapter 1) While placing spiritual interests first, young Witnesses in a number of countries have taken courses to equip themselves for part-time work as accountants, tradesmen, teachers, translators, interpreters, or other occupations that supported them adequately in their primary career of pioneering. (Matthew 6:33) A number of these youths have later become traveling overseers or Bethel volunteers.

A United, Educated People

20 Among Jehovah’s people, whether a person’s occupation is white-collar, blue-collar, farming, or services, all need to be good students of the Bible and able teachers. Skills acquired by all in reading, studying, and teaching tend to dispel the distinction that the world makes between manual and office workers. This makes for the unity and mutual respect that is particularly visible among the volunteer workers in Bethel homes and on Watch Tower Society construction sites, where spiritual qualities are all-important and required of all. Here, experienced office personnel work joyfully with skilled manual workers, all displaying appreciative love for one another.—John 13:34, 35; Philippians 2:1-4.

21 Parents, guide your children toward the goal of becoming useful members of the new world society! Young Christians, use your opportunities for education as a means of equipping you to lay hold more fully on your privileges in serving Jehovah! As taught ones, may all of you prove to be well-equipped members of the theocratic society both now and everlastingly in God’s promised "new earth."—2 Peter 3:13; Isaiah 50:4; 54:13; 1 Corinthians 2:13.

[Emphasis Added]

*** Awake! May 8 1989 pp.13-14 What Career Should I Choose? ***

University Education—Advantageous?

Most pioneer ministers support themselves with part-time work. But what if later on you need to support a family? Surely one would never regret devoting one’s youthful years to God’s service! Still, some ask, Would it not make sense for a youth first to obtain a university degree and perhaps pursue the ministry later?

The Bible, of course, does not spell out exactly how many years of schooling a Christian youth should obtain. Nor does it condemn education. Jehovah, the "Grand Instructor," encourages his people to read well and to express themselves clearly. (Isaiah 30:20; Psalm 1:2; Hebrews 5:12) Moreover, education can broaden our understanding of people and the world we live in.

Nevertheless, is a university degree always worth the huge commitment of time and money it demands? While statistics indicate that university graduates earn higher salaries and suffer less unemployment than high school graduates, the book Planning Your College Education reminds us that these statistics are mere averages. Only a minority of university graduates actually receive sky-high salaries; the rest are paid wages that are far more down to earth. Besides, the high incomes attributed to university graduates may also result from such factors as "unusual abilities, motivation, area opportunities for employment, . . . special talents"—not simply the amount of their education.

"A [university] degree no longer guarantees success in the job market," says the U.S. Department of Labor. "The proportion [of university graduates] employed in professional, technical, and managerial occupations . . . declined because these occupations did not expand rapidly enough to absorb the growing supply of graduates. As a result, roughly 1 out of 5 [university] graduates who entered the labor market between 1970 and 1984 took a job not usually requiring a degree. This oversupply of graduates is likely to continue through the mid-1990’s."

Further Facts to Ponder

A university degree may or may not improve your employment prospects. But one fact is indisputable: "The time left is reduced"! (1 Corinthians 7:29) For all its presumed benefits, would four years or more in a university be the best use of that remaining time?—Ephesians 5:16.

Would a university education steer you toward or away from your spiritual goals? Remember, a high income is not a Christian priority. (1 Timothy 6:7, 8) Yet, a survey of U.S. university administrators described today’s students as ‘career-oriented, concerned with material success, concerned with self.’ One group of students said: "It seems like all we talk about is money." How might being immersed in an atmosphere of intense competition and selfish materialism affect you?

Universities may no longer have the riotous scenes of the 1960’s. But a decrease in university bedlam hardly means the campus environment is wholesome. Concluded one study of campus life: "Students still have almost unlimited freedom in personal and social matters." Drugs and alcohol are used freely, and promiscuity is the rule—not the exception. If this is true of universities in your land, might living there thwart your efforts to remain morally clean?—1 Corinthians 6:18.

Another concern is the well-documented association of exposure to higher education with decreased "adherence to core religious tenets." (The Sacred in a Secular Age) The pressure to maintain high grades has caused some Christian youths to neglect spiritual activities and thus become vulnerable to the onslaught of secular thinking promoted by universities. Some have suffered shipwreck concerning their faith.—Colossians 2:8.

Alternatives to University Education

In view of these facts, many Christian youths have decided against a university education. Many have found that the training offered in congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses—the weekly Theocratic Ministry School in particular—has given them a real edge in finding employment. Though not possessing a university degree, such youths learn to be poised, adept at expressing themselves, and quite capable of handling responsibility. Furthermore, while in secondary school, some take courses in typing, computer programming, auto repair, machine-shop work, and so forth. Such skills may lend themselves to part-time employment and are often in high demand. And though many youths disdain ‘working with their hands,’ the Bible dignifies doing "hard work." (Ephesians 4:28) Why, Jesus Christ himself learned a trade so well that he came to be called "the carpenter"!—Mark 6:3.

True, in some lands university graduates have so flooded the job market that it is hard to obtain even commonplace jobs without additional training. But often there are apprenticeship programs, vocational or technical schools, and short-term university courses that teach marketable skills with a minimum investment of time and money. Also, there is a factor that employment statistics do not take into account: God’s promise to provide for those who give priority to spiritual interests.—Matthew 6:33.

Employment prospects and educational systems vary from place to place. Youths have different abilities and inclinations. And while a career in the Christian ministry is recommended as being beneficial, it is still a matter of personal choice. You and your parents must thus carefully weigh all factors involved in deciding how much education is right for you. ‘Each one must carry his own load’ in making such decisions.—Galatians 6:5.

If, for example, your parents insist that you attend a university, you have no choice but to obey them as long as you are living under their supervision. (Ephesians 6:1-3) Perhaps you can continue living at home and avoid getting caught up in the university scene. Be selective in your choice of courses, for example, focusing on learning job skills rather than worldly philosophies. Guard your associations. (1 Corinthians 15:33) Keep yourself spiritually strong by meeting attendance, field service, and personal study. Some youths who have been obliged to attend university have even managed to pioneer by choosing a schedule of courses that made that possible.

Choose your career carefully and prayerfully, so that it not only will bring personal happiness but will enable you to ’store up treasures in heaven.’—Matthew 6:20.

[Emphasis Added]

*** Watchtower September 1 1975 p.543 Questions from Readers ***

Questions from Readers

• How many years of secular education are advisable for children in Christian households?

Today, there are many teenage baptized servants of Jehovah… how far should they go with a secular education? It would hardly be consistent for such a youth, of his own choice, to pursue extensive secular studies beyond what is required by the law and by his parents… additional years of college education may present snares.

[Emphasis Added]

*** Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15 ***

If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. Of the generation that observed the beginning of the ‘last days’ in 1914, Jesus foretold: ‘This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.’ Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way towards its finish, if not actually gone! This is why parents who base their lives on God’s prophetic Word find it much more practical to direct their young ones into trades that do not require such long periods of additional schooling… True, those who do not understand where we are in the stream of time from God’s viewpoint will call this impractical. But which is really practical: preparing yourself for a position in this world that soon will pass away? or working toward surviving this system’s end and enjoying eternal life in God’s righteous new order?

[Emphasis Added]

*** Watchtower 1969 March 15 p.171 What Influences Decisions in Your Life? ***

12 The influence and spirit of this world is to get ahead, to make a name for oneself. Many schools now have student counselors who encourage one to pursue higher education after high school, to pursue a career with a future in this system of things. Do not be influenced by them. Do not let them “brainwash” you with the Devil’s propaganda to get ahead, to make something of yourself in this world. This world has very little time left! Any “future” this world offers is no future! Wisely, then, let God’s Word influence you in selecting a course that will result in your protection and blessing. Make pioneer service, the full-time ministry, with the possibility of Bethel or missionary service your goal. This is a life that offers an everlasting future!

[Emphasis Added]



29 Comments

Comment by DrinyDiluer (Comment ID: 290492)

I’d prefer reading in my native language, because my knowledge of your languange is no so well. But it was interesting! Look for some my links:



Posted on December 22, 2007 at 12:10 pm


Comment by DrinyDiluer (Comment ID: 290662)

I’d prefer reading in my native language that someone shot me, because my knowledge & behavior is a joke. But my death would be interesting and overdue! Look for some of my links:
http://www.bozo.com/



Posted on December 23, 2007 at 1:24 am

 
 

Comment by argie (Comment ID: 218390)

I am an argentinian man living in Argentina that saw this site in the net and it looked very interesting. My mother tongue is Spanish and I beg your pardon in advance for any language related mistakes in this writing.

I have been raised in the JW´s by my father until he died when I was 13 and then I voluntary quit. My mother was a JW until I was 6 y.o. and a bit after she got divorced due to domestic violence in the hands of my father.

I was never baptized in the cult/religion but of course I took a big part on the religion’s activities: the preaching on the streets and the talkings before the congregation.

After being raised in such a manichaeist atmosphere, I always try to identify the good and the bad of everything and relativize things in order to avoid being an extremist…which by the way is always hard…

I think after being raised as JW i developed a couple of good things that i am thankful about: my taste on reading, books and study may be partly to this religion ( I dont know may be not and I just need a reason to justify the years i was there ). Family values, affection may is something I have to be thankful. The value of having a good citizen behaviour is also another expected requirement by JW´s. And all the rest of good things that JW´s have and we all know.

There was the good. Now, the bad.

On the other hand, i totally agreed with Leila. If someone wants to join the JW, please be inform and read, READ A LOT. I never understood their dogma on blood transfusions, except for being a way of psychological domination on JW´s: in other words if you are able to loose your life for this inexplicable dogma, you are going to do everything for the religion, no matter how hard.

After that, university education is another thing I do not understand. They clearly discourage young JW to purchase serious university education for themselves: law, medicine, business, etc because this is world is just around the corner from the destruction. But in the other hand, the people who command the religion loves to recruit proffesionals in the religion to later serve as elders. And even more, the wachtower in my country always have the BEST and most expensive law firms working for them in their silly legal cases based on lies supposedly taken from the Bible.

Another thing I never understood was that kind of modern witch hysteria that sorrounds the religion. The elders and the congregation forms these pathetic witch trials that controls and oversees the behaviour of its kingdom hall members like puritans did in Salem more than 300 bloody years ago…I have a deeper explanation about this but may be is offensive for you, and I will keep it for me. It would like they have change the fire piles from Salem to this modern milder type of abuse of shunning.

Well of course, their unfriendly attitude towards other religions is another funny thing….Jw’s think God likes them exclusively only because they call themselves brothers and sisters…but even the Pharisees did the same during Jesus’s time.

Why Jw´s consider someone is evil only because he does not share their same views?

Then, why elders are silent before cases of domestic violence? Why they seem to care more if a member have sex out of marriage and not if the wife is beaten by her husband and her life is in danger? Is being beaten part of the submissive, docile or obedient attitude female JW’s are expected to have in their marriages?

There are more things but these things are just so unbearable for me. That’s why I will never be inside their religion again. They are in the other side of the world to me, even though I do consider them my brothers because Jesus and my own conscience tell me that is the right thing to do. And I still apreciating a lot some JW´s that still having contact with me.



Posted on May 28, 2007 at 7:04 am

 

Comment by Delcia (Comment ID: 140956)

could someone plz talk to me



Posted on January 17, 2007 at 6:06 pm


Comment by Jones (Comment ID: 140967)

Delcia
PLEASE let this website talk to you then you run as fast as you can in the opposite direction when you see someone who calls themselves Jehovah’s Witness approaches you.



Posted on January 17, 2007 at 6:22 pm

 

Comment by Leila (Comment ID: 141562)

Hello,
I am currently still professing to be a Witness, because, although I am twenty years old, I am unable to leave home at this time, due to illness. Please believe me when I say that becoming a Witness will do you more harm than good. As soon as I am able, I will get out of it. Jehovah’s Witnesses do not have the truth. I have grown up as one, until losing my faith a couple of years ago. I think the best thing for you to do would be to read Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz. It’s a little higher priced than most books, but it could save you years of your life! This man was a JW for several decades, and a member of the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses for nine years. The things he can tell you will be the most useful pieces of information you can find to help you make such an important decision. This is no spiteful, bitter JW-bashing book, either. His tone throughout the whole is respectful and kind. Please, do your research before deciding to become a Witness. Their policies on blood and medical care have cost many lives; their disfellowshipping policy has cost many people their families and friends. If you become a JW, you will be pressured to cut off any contact with friends, parents, siblings, even children, who are not JWs. If you want to become a JW because all of your family is…let me tell you, friend, it is not worth giving your life to an organization that offers you nothing but false hopes and false truths and sends you out to recruit other innocent people into what they (the Governing Body) know to be lie. Please read that book! An excellent website to visit would be freeminds.org. Good luck.

Leila



Posted on January 18, 2007 at 7:49 am

 

Comment by sister in the lord (Comment ID: 141909)

dear delcia,
if you are studying the word of god and you are thinking of becoming babtized i think that is a wonderful thing. And as scripture states ‘a true witness does not lie’ so in your walk with god Jehovah you must take into account jesus words that state ‘ there are many causes for stumbling ‘ and ‘woe to the one through whom the stumbling comes.’ there is one bit of advice i would give you and it is keep your focus on jesus and obey his commands , do not allow anyone to tell you that any part of gods word is not talking to you.



Posted on January 18, 2007 at 3:34 pm


Comment by leroy (Comment ID: 142329)

dear sister in the lord,

how come you are so sure that the stumbling you speak of is not coming through you?

Is it not true that JW teaching is full of errors, some of them have even been recognised by themselves?

What was that again about how to recognise a true prophet? How does this match with the various predictions of Armageddon which did in fact not come true?

Do you really think ALL of the bible is directed directly to EACH ONE of us? Do you not believe in the importance to place scripture into the proper historical context?

If not, perhaps you can advise a concerned Christian on these questions:

1. Leviticus 25.44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. I live in the London, England, so can I own Scotsmen and Irishmen, or do they count as the same nation? I take it, you have some Mexican and Canadian slaves.

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21.7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Leviticus15.19-24). The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord. (Leviticus 1.9) The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35.2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Leviticus11.10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there degrees of abomination?

7. Leviticus.21.20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Leviticus19.27. How should they die?

9. I know from Leviticus 11.6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean. May I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Leviticus 19.19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Leviticus 24.10-16) Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, as we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Leviticus 20.



Posted on January 19, 2007 at 12:05 am


Comment by sister in the lord (Comment ID: 144409)

Leroy,
you have just made one big mistake and it is this “God loved the world so much he sent his son, ..’ Did you get that ? really get it?? God didn’t love the world so much he sent a down a sister in the Lord. “Every one who obeys God receives the free gift of the Holy Spirit , which leads us into all truth. Your questions are directed to the wrong person. I am not your teacher, i am not the one that leads you.Your ability to discern is your own responsibility as to whether God exists or not , and I am afraid I can not give you discernment .
Every question you put forward can be answered by Gods Word. ‘Seek and you will find knock and the door will be opened,’ Jesus said.” And yes I could be a stumbling stone if a person takes their eyes of Jesus and starts to follow the messenger and not the one we are told to preach Jesus Christ.we can but encourage one another.And a true prophet preaches Christ not himself.



Posted on January 20, 2007 at 9:28 am


Comment by Leroy (Comment ID: 144502)

A true prophet preaches Christ, not himself.as you say.

The watchtower has “demoted” Christ to some sort of Archangel, not the son of GOD. It reject the trinity.

Essentially it is a printing company using cult techniques to get cheap employees.

It has repeatedly given dates for the end of the world which were clearly false.

It teaches that blood transfusions are evil and thereby has caused the death of many people.

It has systematically covered up child abuse.

It has changed the text of the bible in their own “translation” to make it fit their own teaching.

Yes I have enough “decernment” to see if I am being conned. Have you?



Posted on January 20, 2007 at 12:43 pm


Comment by ? (Comment ID: 144611)

To Leroy: Yes you have enough “decernment”.
What about “discernment” have you got any???



Posted on January 20, 2007 at 3:43 pm


Comment by leroy (Comment ID: 144668)

to ?
decernment = detachment
discerment = knowing the different between true and false teaching.

I have asked a “witness” to answer me some questions but I did not get any answers. Is that a good witness?

Are really all JW so confused that they can not see the ridiculous 19th century lies they peddle as “Truth”?

Delcia, you are about to fall into the clutches of a dangerous cult. Do you want to die because somebody wrongly teaches (NOT the bible) you can never have a blood transfusion?

Are you happy for your children being abused and people put the WT first when investigatating, not your children?

LOOK, and read what is KNOWN about them, is is all here and on many other sites. They are a dangerous parody of Christianity. READ what they FORBID you to read, because they don’t what you to find out the truth.

As far as “?” and “sister in the lord” are concerned, you are as dangerous to spiritual health as a rattle snake is to physical health.

Have you noticed “sister in the Lord” is quite happy to give YOU guidance, because you may be a suitable recruit in their eyes, but not to anyone who knows the scripture and knows Christian teaching, like me.



Posted on January 20, 2007 at 5:20 pm


Comment by ? (Comment ID: 144792)

Leroy, I looked up the word “decernment” and could not find it in the dictionary. Where did you get this word from?



Posted on January 20, 2007 at 9:39 pm


Comment by James NON-JW (Comment ID: 145051)

Must be a JW, more concerned regarding trivialities than the real discussion at hand.
As well, most JW’s don’t post their name as they are very concerned about what other JW’s think, not what their Creator thinks.
Please post a sensible comment that attempts to even half-heartedly answer the statements proposed.

Thank you.



Posted on January 21, 2007 at 3:21 pm

 
 
 
 

Comment by sister in the Lord (Comment ID: 144918)

your not really listening leroy,
i agree with you that if persons takes their eyes off jesus and focus on an organization of any kind they have committed spiritual adultery. Am not advising this other person to follow an organization but to follow jesus. She will do this by being obedient to jesus commands. at the same time jesus has given us certain commandments to obey that take some sort of arrangement being in place. As i have found, there is absolutely no place where there is no error, No Christian religious organization any where is free of error.So my prayer to god was where do we carry out your commandments? , like for example the listening to the public reading of scripture? And the answer to me is ‘where my name resides that is where you will carry out all that i command you.’ So Jehovah is Gods name and that is what I have faith in, his name and not the people, because jesus himself said ‘beware of the leaven of the Pharisees ‘So yes we are sitting as scripture states ‘ in the midst of deception, and through deception they have refused to know me.’ But this is all in the plan of God , Christians were never called to an idyllic life basking in the ‘glow’ of warm fuzzy feelings , no we are called to pick up our ‘cross’ stake and follow Christ. As he was treated by the original jehovah witnesses the jews, is exactly how we will be treated.Leroy i am not being conned because i know who i am following and i know who i have believed in.Jesus Christ



Posted on January 21, 2007 at 4:34 am

 
 
 
 
 
 

Comment by Delcia (Comment ID: 140953)

Iam planning to become one of Jehovah Witness



Posted on January 17, 2007 at 6:04 pm


Comment by Elliot (Comment ID: 142090)

Delcia,

you are the one one who can make that decision. Personally I think I would be a serious mistake.

If you like to know why, I explain it to you. I am a Christian,too, but not a JW.



Posted on January 18, 2007 at 7:37 pm

 

Comment by sister in the lord (Comment ID: 144079)

delcia,
when you say you plan to become one of Jehovahs witnesses you have to ask yourself. Is being a disciple of Jesus means I automatically become a witness of jehovah. just as jesus was the ‘true’ and ‘faithful’ witness. And so you enter the race and proceed a long the way, where you are led by Holy spirit. Or does being a witness of jehovah mean to you that you are joining a denomination of people and are led by a group of men, who call themselves the faithful and discreet class.? Then you will have to ask yourself a question, ‘what would I do if I found a clash between what I am being advised by the ’slave’ class and what i am finding jesus is saying in the undiluted ‘word’? Jesus tells us to be obedient to those taking the lead, and we have been told that ‘all authority is from god’ But we all know that at times there is conflict between the ‘authority’ and gods word. We are all in agreement with how to handle this conflict when it comes through ‘Ceasar’ of this world. But many are not taught that the same principle applies to any ‘authority’ including those within the ‘brotherhood’ and if you think they are infallible you make the same mistake that millions made in the catholic church’ about the so called “pope’



Posted on January 20, 2007 at 3:06 am


Comment by Anonymous (Comment ID: 144821)

You raise some very useful questions, so let’s have a look at them:

Is being a disciple of Jesus means I automatically become a witness of jehovah. just as jesus was the ‘true’ and ‘faithful’ witness.

The two things are clearly not the same. Otherwise there would be no Christians outside the JW. Or is that what you believe?

Or does being a witness of jehovah mean to you that you are joining a denomination of people and are led by a group of men, who call themselves the faithful and discreet class.?

Yes, obviously true.

what would I do if I found a clash between what I am being advised by the ’slave’ class and what i am finding jesus is saying in the undiluted ‘word’?

Then you have a crisis of conscience, like Raymond Franz. Unfortunately, the Watchtower’s “slave class” is highly intolerant of dissent, particularly from its own members. The Watchtower, has, to all intents and purposes a “committee pope”. The main difference between that committee and the Roman pope is that they managed to come up with even more blunders and that they are much more ready to be intolerant of dissent than any modern pope.

At one point, the consumption of alcohol was a positive virtue, the use of aluminium pots and pans forbidden, for example. Disagreement with any of these would have resulted in excommunication (“disfellowship”).

In addition these are a whole host of “oscillating” truths, sometimes true sometimes false, maybe depending on the weather, I don’t know. They are all listed in the “watchtower quotes” on this site!



Posted on January 20, 2007 at 11:59 pm


Comment by sister in the Lord (Comment ID: 144920)

Thats right annonymous following jesus mean suffering, you hit it on the head. following jesus means that ‘ men will expell you from the synagogue [ meeting house] thinking they have done a service to me’ have you been expelled from a meeting house because of following jesus, [notice these are men who think they are serving god].well some of us have. Jesus goes on to say ‘in fact the hour is coming when men will even kill you thinking they have done a service to me.’ are you ready to lay down your life for Christ, because that is what is involved in discipleship.’ if you don’t hate your life more then me you are not worthy of me.’ Jesus demands all and in return he gives you every thing . jesus says ‘you better weigh up the cost before you even start.’ can you take the ‘hate’ you are going to get for following Christ, and remember this is the ‘world’ will hate you. we who are disciples of Christ, do you think we come on here and listen to you have a go at us, because we have nothing better to do, we are subject left right and center from ones having a go at us , we need encouragement , but sadly we find none.

There must be others out there who are like me who know what i am talking about, but i only find bitterness anger and people abusing others .



Posted on January 21, 2007 at 4:59 am


Comment by Anonymous (Comment ID: 145031)

sister in the lord, and why cant following jesus not get married at all, tranforming water into wine, going fasting for 40 days, just be around a bunch of men and go talk to the hookers and so on?



Posted on January 21, 2007 at 2:00 pm


Comment by Anonymous (Comment ID: 145037)

just to let you know, this is a different person to me, I am the one who asked you that list of questions. (Call me “A” and the other one “B” (or x and y))



Posted on January 21, 2007 at 3:01 pm


Comment by Babs (Comment ID: 145100)

sister in the lord,

Having just said “I am the one with the list of question” I found Leroy sends a much bigger list, so more mix up.

Ok, this anonymous stuff is getting too silly, so my name is Babatunde, I am a twenty-two year old man from Ghana.

People call me “Babs”.

My post started with “dear sister in the lord”, so you know who is who.

I would be nice to have a chat.



Posted on January 21, 2007 at 5:40 pm

 
 
 
 

Comment by Ps/ sister in lord (Comment ID: 144929)

Ps
every Christian everywhere who exercises faith in jesus christ is automatically a witness of jehovah god.[Some do not know his name yet , they know the sons name but not the fathers]. Just as jesus said to his disciples when they said ‘ tell that bloke over there to stop using your name to cure people, because he is not with us.’ and jesus said ‘ he that is not against me is for me.’ thats my view of all other christians every where , my duty is to encourage the faith they do have, in jesus christ and discourage them from following their group identity e.g. babtist , assemblies of god , lutheran etc. their identity must be wrapped up in christ.[ by divine providence they were called christians. we can lose all other names] they don’t belong to this or that religious group, for jesus is the one who bought them with his blood and christians every where belong to him, although we are all at different levels of growth.We do have to explain that babylon is man building gods kingdom on earth, in forms of religious organizations, but Gods way is the building up a spiritual house by a new covenant.



Posted on January 21, 2007 at 5:31 am


Comment by Anonymous (Comment ID: 144974)

Dear sister in the Lord
Reading your latest posts, I am a little confused…

So, Christian groups are a secondary consideration, coming after the fundamental choice to follow Christ. I agree with that.

But why should then anyone pick JW as his/her choice of group for support and spiritual support in preference to any other group?

Do JW not claim the exclusivity of Truth? Many of their writings say so.

If religous organisations are part of “Babylon”, perhaps it is better to keep clear of ALL of them, including the Watchtower?

I really DO wish there was ONE group ANYWHERE where people would not argue about doctrine but simply got together for mutual support…

Strangely, at one point the founder of the JW said exactly that, but clearly this has not happened.

So, in your anonymity, can I ask you a personal question: Your views clearly are somewhat at odds with the “official” JW position. Do you simply keep your views to yourself in meetings and take what is good and leave the rest? Or did you leave the JW? If you publicly said some of the things you said here, I think you would be in trouble. In fact, you would be in trouble for simply reading this site. There is one other possibility though, and I hope this is not the case, but I ask anyway, no offence meant: Do you, by any chance, believe that you should introduce the real teachings of the JW gradually, and even disguise them, so that people are not put off? Please tell me that this is not true.

It would be good to have an honest, straight-forward discussion here because you intrigue me and I would like to understand you better.

Perhaps we can learn something from one another?



Posted on January 21, 2007 at 10:28 am

 

Comment by leroy (Comment ID: 144981)

To:-sister in the Lord and “?”-
Hi again,

I wonder if I could ask you these questions? I know they are a lot, perhaps start with one or two of your choice?

Do you believe that the Bible was written to all people?

Do you believe that true Christians have always existed somewhere in the last 2000 years?

Do you believe that anyone, anywhere, who just had a Bible, and no other literature, could understand it and be saved?

Do you think a person should examine not only the teachings, but also the history of any religious organization before deciding it is the truth?

What if I joined one of these groups and later discovered fraud at the top of the organization, or that they have altered their teachings or prophecies? Should I stay in it?

What would you think if members of a certain religion were not allowed to read other religious literature?
If I were examining the Mormons, etc., do you think it would be a good idea to read books by ex-members?

What if all dissent from a religion is seen as evidence of pride or sin?

What if this religion is not open to public criticism?

What if they do not allow for public debate?

Can the Bible be interpreted correctly only by the Watchtower?

What method does the Watchtower use to interpret Scripture?

Do prominent scholars, either secular or religious, support the Watchtower interpretations of Scripture?

Does the Watchtower believe all other “Christian” groups are false?

What does the Watchtower consider as proof that they are the real Christians? Are these marks exclusive to the Watchtower, or are they shared by other religions?

Does the organization or leadership claim to be a prophet of God?

Does the leadership claim special direction from God that others cannot receive directly from God?

Can you come to Christ as your mediator?

Has the organization made prophecies that have not come true?

Have your doctrines changed significantly in the past history of your organization?

How long has this religion been around? Can this be demonstrated historically?



Posted on January 21, 2007 at 11:17 am

 
 
 
 
 

Comment by Delcia (Comment ID: 140946)

hey



Posted on January 17, 2007 at 6:02 pm

 

Comment by KVVIN (Comment ID: 76216)

IM NEW TO THIS WHAT DID I DO WRONG ?



Posted on November 9, 2006 at 2:43 am


Comment by Anonymous (Comment ID: 76217)

SHUT UP



Posted on November 9, 2006 at 2:51 am

 
 

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