Anonymous,

It would help if you would address yourself with a name more identifiable. There are more anonymouses (sp)on this site than you can count.

If man created God, then who created man?

I cannot disagree with you. Crimes against humanity have been committed in the name of religion more than any of us can count. Man has been committing crimes against one another from the ancients who sacrificed their subjects in the ritualistic killings to today when the name of religion is used to keep people in “line” with rules and regulations that causes more harm than good. It started in Genesis

I understand fully vs. 27. It puts the “follow the leader” philosophy to rest. My momma always preached the idea that every tub sits on its own bottom. I cannot blame anyone but myself for my actions or beliefs.

I admit that I had not studied in depth the writings of James when he made the statement in Acts 15 after the council meeting in the letter to the Gentiles, and the letter by Paul to the Christians at Corinth. I am doing that now after I put my foot in my mouth with the “no” comment that Fri latched on and promptly admonished me.

What amazes me that it seems to be that mankind simply will not follow the rules and regulations that is set where from the bible or government. Whatever the speed limit is, we feel that we can go 5-10 miles over that. It is easier to tell a lie than the truth. We believe we know where the boundaries of morality are and we push those boundaries. I could go on and on.
Is it really easier to hate than to love? Is it really easier to take than to receive? Which act actually makes us feel better inside?

I don’t have any desire to belong to any group that keeps me hostage to their belief. I rejoice in the fact that I can believe what I want to believe and I don’t have someone watching to see if I mess up so they can tell. My life is not at risk because I have that freedom to believe or not to. How many people today cannot make that statement?

Very good question “if man created god, then who created man?” Maybe I can ask you the same, if god created man, then who created god? Himself? If so couldn’t man do the same?
If the crime all started in Genesis, does that make gods fault?
I don’t know where you got the idea that “it is easier to hate than love” “it really easier to take than to receive” and “it is easier to tell a lie than the truth”, since infancy my mother told me: “always tell the truth, so that you don’t have to remember what you said last”. It has worked well for me!
Please let me point to you that I have NEVER had a ticket for parking, speeding or otherwise in 24 years of driving. Actually 3 years ago there was an article on a local paper with my story. I very much obey the traffic laws. My father died 43 years ago from a motorized accident so I pretty much follow the law. Sorry but your speed argument will not hold water in this department!
You don’t have the desire to be a hostage to a belief, you don’t seem to understand the bible yet you want to be a slave of it? For every little thing you quote this and that scripture?
I am a bit puzzled with your arguments.

Fri,

You are an exceptional person. It never occurred to me that I needed to list my moral accomplishments. No one ever approached me to even ask me about my driving record. I am not arguing. If you will read my post you will find that I have a question mark after the questions. They were not statements, but questions. There is no argument from this vantage point. I drive the speed limit, the cars and trucks zoom around me as if I am parked. I don’t need a divine revelation to come to the conclusion that people drive over the speed limit. Good grief man! Can you have a conversation without being offended. I am not a hostage to anything. I got a speeding ticket when I was about 21 and that was back in about ‘60. That made a believer out of me. Went through a license check about 3 years ago and did not have my drivers license. They let me go back home and get them. They made fun of me because I had a “safe driver” stamp on the license and I did not have them with me when I was stopped.

I think from your post you get the idea that I was using you as the target for love, hate, lying, etc. If you read the news papers or watch the news on the TV you will get your fill of all the LOVE that is spread around the world. Need I say more. Someone tried to rip me off using my credit card number. Someone sent me one of those Nigerian money windfall letters. I lock my doors at night. I have an alarm system. When I see someone in the neighborhood that I don’t know I pay attention.

My mama told me the same thing. For some reason when I was a kid I tried to lie my way out of trouble. Many times it did not work. I grew up just as you and what mama said made a lot more sense.

There is so much love that comes out of all your posts. It warms the cockles of my heart. When you answer someone that you don’t agree with, it amazes me that you are so gentle and comforting with your comments or rebuttals. It surely opens the door for more dialog so that you can explain yourself more with such class. I am sure you do your mama proud. If we pay attention, we all can learn from your kindness. Please share with us all of your other attributes. You must be one of a kind.

Fri,

I forgot to add humility to the attributes that you exhibit. What an example for all of us to look up to and emulate. Not like the Pharisees that stood in the temple with the tax collector. Smart too, I wonder if you are a member of Mensa. You definitely know more than anyone that writes to this forum. All we have to do is read all of your wonderful contributions. Your command of the English language is so superior to all of us. Your spelling is perfect and your delivery is over the top. We all have obviously been in need of your critique and you have been so gracious in calling to our attention all the mistakes we have made. You even gave of your great wealth of knowledge before anyone felt it necessary to ask for it.

You need to take a bow. You are a real gentleman and a scholar. I await your generous comments.

Jones,
You say you are not the only representative of God on earth. meaning that you are a representative of God though not the only one. How do you know that? Or was it a self-appointed thing?

You try to make a comparison with other people of the past we may not have enough evidence about. True. But they do not ask you faith in them. They never tell you that if you do something wrong according to them ya’ll have your throat slashed and will burn in hell (Luke 19:27).

As for name calling and abusive speech, I’d like to remind you that the bible is second to nobody. The bible is the most offensive and unethical book ever written, those who say no are either crazy or never read it. The love talk in the bible is the sugar coating for zero-brained, unthinking, grossly ignorant and coward folk.

I may sometimes be assertive and even speak derogatively of others, but although I think I’m right I would never, EVER kill anyone disagreeing with me. The Holy Trinity on the other hand, is the most daemoniac bloodbath, genocide and planetary carnage-vomiting monster ever known to mankind paralleled only by the muslim god allah.

In your answers to Fri you’re just clutching at straws. You said it: You want to believe. When Fri talked about the sick deference to authority that much horror has caused on earth, in psychology that is one of the main characteristics of the so-called ‘authoritarian personality type’. You might wish to get some info about it.

You read the SET FREE FROM JESUS site and still want to believe. Fine, this means that you consciously endorse such blasphemous monster christian churches identify as the Holy Trinity.

Good Morning Otto;

I was wondering where you were. It is wonderful that we all have a right to our choices and opinions. You are so good at defending yours. When you can prove your point without a shadow of a doubt then I will step into your corner. Like I said before, I cannot prove what I believe but I accept and have faith. You cannot prove what you believe and you accept that on faith. As far as being self appointed. No.

Words just words. The tongue starts the conflict. Self worth is diminished by words. Words build up or take down. Don’t be fooled with the idea that words don’t do as much harm as physical conflict.. Words have been the fuel that pushes a fragile mind over the edge. Hey, it is your business and if it makes you feel like a bigger person to use words as your battering ram then by all means take your fill. If you ever have children and they come home from school and tell you about the school bully standing over them and using words to intimidate or control, you will get it. Just what is wrong with civil discourse? Sure it is not fashionable to speak now-a-days without using gutter language or other obscene words or gestures. Would you throw your household garbage in my face? Verbal garbage is no different. One can be picked up and disposed of but the other is absorbed into the mind. Is it really necessary to do?

Hi Jones,

I admit you might have point about using language in an aggressive way.
However, I’d like to remind you for the “nth” time that my language is nothing, nothing at all next to the bible corrosive, homicidal and depraved throw-up.
And by endorsing the bible, you endorse its writers mentality, above all that of jesus the christo who wants to burn and make suffer for ever all those he just does not happen to like.
Thank God such scarecrow does not exist otherwise we would know who is the worst felon of human history.
If jesus were a real person I would be killed and tortured for all eternity by him.
And you tell me that I have to mince words in the face of such loathsome ideology?
After the war we sentenced to death many nazi criminals accusing them of crimes against humanity. Strong language but the truth nonetheless.
The nazi killed 6 millions of Jews. jesus would kill and burn forever in his own ovens (or hellfire) for ever all those who do not want him to reign over them Luke 19:27 again.
jesus should be trialed for crimes against humanity, much, much worse than Adolf Hitler. STUDY HISTORY AND ANALYZE THE BIBLE.
But many love good jesus…

Jones,
I’d like to add that those who would be victims of jesus judgement day would be not millions but billions of people.

And a personal criticism: I don’t understand why you wrote such a sarcastic reply to Fry (your last to him).
I found it sickening.

cheers

Otto,

I am somewhat confused at you finding what I wrote to Fri sickening. Maybe you would like to refresh your memory and read the many posts by you and Fri that most likely will have the same effect of those to whom the insults were directed. Have you heard the old saying “if the shoe fits”?

Just how many people do you think you have influenced by your diatribe? Some people believe. You don’t. Get over it! Do you come to this website to learn, inform, or heckle? Is this where you come for your daily fix? We get it. How many more times do you intend to tell us that we are stupid? Just remember, you were one of us at one time. You bought the “lie”. Maybe that is why you are still bitter. At some time you need to move on if you are over the religion thing. If sarcasm is the only way to get a point across then at least the point was made. You seem to take what others believe too seriously. Why does it matter to you?

Jones if you tried in a nice way insult my intelligence, you did not succeed! Exceptional person? Love that comes from my post? So gentle and comforting with my comments or rebuttals? Learn from my kindness? Explain myself with such class? Humility? A scholar? Member of Mensa?
You have claimed in a previous post that you are not the brightest crayon in the box but yes you got it right when you though I am a member of MEMSA: MISSOURI EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICE ASSOCIATION who by the way deals with psychiatric patients and I assure we can help and save you.

You must have swallowed quite a bit of pride to write what you wrote about me, hopefully you did not choke and I will continue to hear from you.
You left me speechless with your kindness, I am really perplexed. Don’t know what to say next.
One thing I can assure you is, if you read my posts you would have perceived that when is time to call an idiot an idiot, a jerk a jerk, an asshole an asshole, or just to fuck someone off, I have done. Don’t know what posts you have been reading but undoubtedly not mine.
When you acclaim me of my English language, “Your command of the English language is so superior to all of us. Your spelling is perfect and your delivery is over the top” as you put it. Well my friend if you read my previous posts as you alleged you would have perceived that English is my 3rd language, so make fun of me as you may but I speak several.
Don’t know exactly what you are looking for but MENSA can certainly help you.
Must go to my golf now, will check your post later.

Please Google the word. It has to do with high IQ

you wrote mensa i wrote memsa. if you had an average IQ of 25 or less you would have noticed the difference

Fri,

Allow me to say I am sorry that I did not mention that you were multilingual. I knew you were but your list of attributes where so long it slipped my mind. How was the golf game?

Is there anything that I missed? If so let us know. For such a person as you to waste your time beating folks up on this website is a mystery. We are all so beneath you and so not deserving of your time or patience. It has to be a sacrifice of your time and intelligence to do so.

Yep, it appears that quite many things slither your mind, how sad.
Yes, many things you have missed, or should I say you are missing. Sorry but I cannot help you, you must do your own rummage around, or well it will be your loss.
It is actually no trouble or sacrifice for me to be here. After a hard day at work (if you can call it hard work, after all I am the boss) or a good game at golf (today I shut an 81) it is always very comforting to come to this site and read funny posts from jesters such yourself.
Please don’t choke as I would feel very bad.
I am going out for dinner with a family, but I will check your post later on.
Cheers,
Fri

Fri,
at this point it seems that Jones either suffers from a serious strain of dissociative personality disorder (formerly called Multiple Personality) as the change in style shows or this Jones is NOT the Jones we knew but only a jerk-off clone.
I say this because despite the fact that I’ve always disagreed with Jones I’ve found interesting talking to him, but his latest posts are really, really embarassing and worthless.
I’m waiting for an answer from Jones otherwise it’s going to be a waste of time talking to his clone or his new pathetic identity.

Otto,
Jones could be suffering from Multiple personality, sexual deprivation; it could be a number of things.
Perhaps jones just had a bad day in service? Whatever religion/cult, jones belongs too.
I am sorry but I cannot help jones . He/she appears to answer all posts promptly; I think jones spends too much time at the computer therefore sometime of computer syndrome?
Doesn’t 1Cor16:25 say: “too much use of electronic machines makes one stupide”?

Hi You Guys,

Just took a break. I’m sure that many who log in to this site have had a laugh or two. I have had my fun so I guess it is about time for me to enjoy both of your comments. So now have your fun.

Never in my wildest dream would I find that Otto would be embarrassed at anything. Fri, I got over your smart remarks to me some time back. I just figured at the time that your memory was bad after the umpteenth time that I had told you that I was not a JW. You just kept hammering away. Not just at me but to everyone who came to the site that you disagreed with. Unkind remarks over and over again to the point that very few people who seemed to want to discuss anything just gave up and left the site for good.

I am still the same OLD woman, mom, grandma. I don’t find it necessary or needful to degrade others because of their lack of education, language skills or less than grand ability to express their ideas or beliefs. To watch someone attack time and time again using their superior education or knowledge, no matter what the subject is, reveals a lot about the attacker.

Both of you could if you would, be a positive addition to this forum. You don’t need to be ciber bullies. There are human beings on the other end of your attacks with feelings and emotions. You don’t know where they are emotionally nor do you seem to care.

Someone told me once when I started to feel my importance to just fill a bucked with water, insert my hand and take it out real quick. Notice what an impression I left when my hand was removed. I am important to just a few people. If I can leave this life without leaving a trail of destruction and pain in the lives of people I have touched either here on this site or in the neighborhood then that is OK with me.

So you guys, the podium is yours.

Please zero in on the misspelled word “bucked” which was intended to be “bucket”. Make sure that you don’t overlook a thing. It is always more interesting when gang ciber attackers work together. They can direct their chatter about an individual to each other rather than speaking directly to the victim.

Hi Jones,
Thank God you’re back again, without that honey-ish matter spewed forth outta thy brains drenching your unnecessary compliments for Fri.

You think that I would never be embarassed by anything? Do you remember what the crucified corpse had said about judging others?

Naw, like all christo-stoogie you feel better and superior to all non christo-judean sectarians and attack the world more than anybody else.

And remember dear granma, by furthering christianity is not at all different than furthering nazifascism, stalinism, polpotism, al qaeda and like freaks.
True since the end of the Middle Ages christians have somewhat managed to bamboozle the world into believing yours is a message of love and peace, but this shamefully hypocrite propaganda can fool only braindead chumps.
Smart ones who endorse the blasphemous scarecrow they do that because it’s part of their agenda or a means to survive.

Jones you said you ‘I Want to believe’. After all these years as a christian only you know is to come up with the phrase on the poster of X-file Molder???
Read again the SET FREE FROM JESUS site and this start switch thy brains on, cos I’m sure ya didn’t do that last time you surfed the site. Or the hope of a life in heaven is too dear to be discarded at your age after having cherishred it for so much?

Remember, LIES are LIES no matter how much you gift-wrap them with the used and recycled at infinitum toilet paper called the bible.

God bless you in your quest for the truth.

Play nicely children,

Hey I got about a zillion speeding fines. Turns out I’m a victim of this life, I’m always in a hurry to please other folk and thus make some money for some food to eat. So go ahead crucify me.
Did man make God or God man? Now there is a question which only can be answered by more questions.God created man, yep ok who created God?
Himself? Hell people believe this balderdash.
In my opinion man created God, mankind always seemed to need to have someone or something to worship. The Atzeks worshipped the sun, a good God for he brings everyone life. The Romans, Greeks and Egyptians had many Gods, as we all know. We worship a God for the sole reason being that because of our supposed intellect we have somehow grasped the idea that we are different to all other species on this planet and will live on after we die. In both my and Albert Eisteins reasoning a ridiculous notion.
The Old Testament is a compilation of fables, some of them dated earlier than the the earlist writings of the Bible. We have the account of Adam and Eve plauguarised, the story of Noah and the great flood plaguarised, the whole of the book of Job has been plaguarised.
Then we come to the New Testament, another compilation of books chosen by the hierocracy of the
time who wished Jesus to be portrayed as ‘good’, but indeed failed to do so. The Gospel of Thomas, in my opinion the most accurate of them all; Jesus is shown as a freedom fighter, or a least shit stirrer against the Roman Government, which kind of rings more true as to the reason given in the good book why he was put to death. Also rings true as to the definite lack of historical evidence of Jesus’s existence. Why, who would write about a common criminal?
So to all the Bible punchers out there let me apologize for what I have done.
I’m sorry for stopping with the philophosy of the Bible says it, I believe it that’s that.
I’m sorry for doing a thing called research which involves studying the whole of the good book.
Similarly I apologose for reading literature beside the Bible which clearly indicates how people lived and behaved close to the time the Bible was being written.
Most importantly I’m sorry I started using my own mind.
I’m sorry I know when I die I am going to rot away, and feed some worms or other forms of life that have somehow earned their right to be on this planet.

Cheers,
Markus

Hi Markus,
in fact only if you start using thy brains you can read the following in Genesis: ‘And man created God in his own image and likeness’.

Then I ripped the page cos I had to use the paper for a more purposeful end….

Markus,

Taking into account all the worshiping, worshipers, objects and elements to whom the worshipers worshiped, the creators of the Torah were pretty ingenious. A ragtag group of pilgrims who lived in captivity much of the time, came up with a God that they could worship that could not be stolen, destroyed, or even seen. When strife and bad luck came upon their captors, they gave the credit to their God. No one could prove otherwise. They even created a law written down and credited it to their God. Granted there were religions and “gods” before this new and different God worship.

Dravidian ism, Hinduism, Greek Mythology, paganism, or whatever else we study we try to make sense of the evolution of the stories that they recorded. None of it can be proved and we mostly go into the study with an opinion. We zero in on the parts of the writings that agree with what we want to believe. It is hard for me to study anything without bias no matter how much I try.

You have studied the book of Thomas. What makes you believe that writing over the other writings? Is it because it parallels what you like over the others?

There are so many questions that I have that cannot be answered no matter how much I research. Maybe you know where I can find an answer.
What made me choose a career path that no matter
what obstacles were put in front of me, I was driven
to succeed in?

Why do problems that I cannot solve, wake me up at
2 o’clock in the morning completely worked out? All
I had to do was complete the job.

Why am I completely satisfied and view my work as a
pleasure?

Where do new ideas come from and the ability to
bring them to fruition?

Why suddenly did 10 people ask for the same thing on
the same day when the object had been in inventory
for 5 years?

Why when one door closes, 5 others open that are
better than the door that closed?

Where does intuition come from?

Jones,

it’s not going off on a tangent, clutching at straws or trying to climb barehand and barefoot soaped up mirrors.
What Markus clearly meant is that the gospel of Thomas appears to better map onto the first century situation in the ME with all those anti-Roman self-appointed “messiahs” and like losers.
The difference is that we never try to be dogmatic which is quite different from normal bias.
And like all those who belong to an organized religion you feel you are more right than all others. That is being dogmatic. Where for want of argument religious people find refuge into pre-packaged lies.

Ciao

Otto,

I believe I directed the questions to Markus. It would be nice of you to give him the opportunity to answer. That would be the polite thing to do.

Jones/Otto

sorry, I wasn’t aware of this new rule whereby one has to wait for the actual reply of the person addressed to in a previous post.
I therefore apologize for being so unpolite…uhm…

PS I doubt Markus would not concur with my comment in all its parts.
But let’s wait for his rightful reply, shall we?

Otto,

Have a question for you. What do you think of Universal Thought?

Jones,

I’m a psychology graduate and only minored in the social sciences. Never studied philosophy or whatever subjects deals with Universal Thought.

But I’d like you to to explain me what Universal Thought is. Enlighten me please.

Thank you for humoring me.
(Matthew 5:41,42; 7:12).

hugs

Otto,

I picked up a Physiology Today magazine in a waiting room and read an article about universal thought. The writer was exploring the idea that as sound waves were out there, why not explore the possibility. It was a serious question I asked. The writer was asking the question wondering why so many people think the same, act out or explore the same thing at about the same time. He was obviously seeing a pattern of behavior that he could not explain. So he was willing to explore the idea.

No trick question here. I try not to live in a bubble and I tend to ask questions about things that I find interesting. A lot of ” what if’s” come out of the idea. I am not trying to placate you nor do I have any ulterior motive for asking you. One does not know unless they ask if another knows anything about a subject.

To Jones,
so it seems that the ‘universal thought’ idea is what in social psychology is couched in terms of the nature vs nurture debate.
As the greatest swinger of human history (Salomon son of king David; 700 wives, 300 “concubines”) would put it: ‘there’s nothing new under the sun’.

Allow me a digression here: in order to satisfy at least once a year all those women and whores (aka concubines) Salomon had to screw an average of 2.74 women a day.
What a whoremonger!
Then came jesus the christo who they say died a virgin, yet he compared himself to great Salomon!

Jones,

The gospel of Thomas happens to concur with my line of reasoning. Strange is it not that I as an Atheist would agree with a text that was rejected by the religious hierocracy. Thing is though the Gospel of Thomas did come to light it and is confirmed authentic by experts in the field. Do goodie good Jesus would come under some serious pressure if this writing was included. Again the Church like a good mommy and daddy hides the truth from us for our own good. Once again we have a classic example of a Bible puncher going along: nah nana nah na, you like that gospel because you agree with it.
Jesus did everything good, mostly; he did tend to have a bit of a temper, the poor fig tree might agree here if it had a mind.
As I have said countless times; Jesus is more famous than Superman, Spiderman and the Incredible Hulk. Once again there is no historical record of Jesus who could walk on water and raise the dead, again sane minded Christians have no problem with this. Some criminals of the time get more mention than famous Jesus.
I cannot take something that was written thousands of years ago and suddenly start believing it without scrutinizing it and so sorry if I do not agree with it. The Bible has countless contradictions, as far as world geography is concerned it is an absolute riot; and YET is still claimed to be inspired by none other than God himself.

I have been called a mindless being, a Satin worshiper, because I refuse to believe in mythical Satan just as much as I believe in the mythical God. This is the kind of logic I have to put up with.

The fact that a bunch of pilgrims came up with a great idea of invisible and indestructible God reminds me of when we used to play cops and robbers and I after being shot too many times would say bullets only go through me and do me no harm.
So sorry folks, you can keep your fabled God and or
Jesus. Hell grovel to them night and day, why should I care. Sorry your basic sense of logic is so clouded by some very old men who died a long time ago.

Cheers,
Markus

Markus,

you have repeated your logic so many times that I know it by heart. So does Jones.
I’m starting to think that she both experiences an unconscious mental masochist pleasure at having her “faith” (just superstition to rational minds) demolished, and she unconsciously wishes her god to be thrashed because she unconsciously hates him for all the loathsome deeds by her god.
At the conscious level she’s just trying to find (time and again) support for her bible-based belief about behaviours and mind of those who belong to this “fallen” world.
Her distorted psychinc reality won’t allow her objectivity due to the fact that the reality is too painful after a life you’ve believed you’re a child of God.