2004: Jehovah’s Witnesses still on the watch for the end of this world

December 12th, 2003 | Posted in: , Dates | Keywords: , , , , , , , | 193 Comments



The 21th century is already the third century in which Jehovah’s Witnesses expect the end of this world. Every year the Watchtower Society publishes a Yearbook with a Yeartext. The Yeartext for 2004 is:

“Keep on the Watch… Prove Yourselves Ready.” – Matthew 24:42,44

This Yeartext is accompanied with the following remarks:

“Consistently, God’s Word reminds us that Jehovah’s day will arrive with shocking suddenness. Hence, our yeartext for 2004 reflects Jesus’ deep love for his disciples, whom he wants to preserve through “the great tribulation.” (Rev. 7:14 ) How do we remain spiritually watchful and ready? By allowing nothing to distract us from our study of God’s Word and from our privileges of sacred service.”

Six succeeding generations of Jehovah’s Witnesses have expected that the day of Jehovah will arrive with ‘shocking suddenness’. Again and again the Witnesses are pressed to remain ‘watchful and ready’. Here are some quotes from 19the century Watchtower publications:

“In the coming 26 years, all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved.” (1889 – Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. II)

“And, with the end of A.D. 1914, what God calls Babylon , and what men call Christendom, will have passed away, as is already shown from prophecy.” (1897 – Studies In The Scriptures, Vol. III)

But all the governments were not dissolved in 1914 and Christendom was still alive. After the miscalculation of 1914 the Witnesses thought that 1915 would bring the end of this world:

“The Gentile Times prove that the present governments must all be overthrown about the close of A.D. 1915; and Parallelism above shows that this period corresponds exactly with the year A.D. 70, which witnessed the completion of the downfall of the Jewish polity.” (1915 Edition – The Time Is At Hand)

It is a little tedious to enumerate all Watchtower quotations concerning the upcoming end that appeared in magazines and books after 1914. The destruction of governments and/or Christendom was predicted for the following years:

•1918 End of Gentile times, Christendom to be destroyed.

•1920 “ Every kingdom of earth will pass away, be swallowed up in anarchy” .

•1925 Faithful men of the Old Testament were to return and the establishment of the Kingdom in Palastine .

•1932 Christendom to be overthrown.

•1975 Armageddon.

•<2000 Armageddon before the turn of the century

Because the great motivator behind the proselyting activity of Jehovah’s Witnesses is the ‘upcoming end’, the Watchtower Society will continue to stimulate its followers with Yeartexts, articles and public talks. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the only chance for salvation is to actively preach the end of this world and the Kingdom of God . If they are not busy with their ‘sacred service’ when the ‘day of Jehovah’ will arrive with ‘shocking suddenness’ they believe that they will die with the wicked ones.

“Keep on the Watch… Jehovah’s Witnesses will predict the end of this world till the end of this world…”

BY RADO VLEUGEL



193 Comments

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Comment by DrinyDiluer (Comment ID: 289018)

I’d prefer reading in my native language, because my knowledge of your languange is no so well. But it was interesting! Look for some my links:



Posted on December 18, 2007 at 1:09 pm


Comment by Anonymous (Comment ID: 325065)

This 2004 text was made up by Rado Vleugel for his own revenge.



Posted on July 3, 2008 at 6:51 am


Comment by Markus (Comment ID: 325103)

Yep anonymous, spoken like a true follower of God,
blah blah blah and blab, without not even a gram of proof or argument, and anonymous still expects us to agree with him/her drop everything and listen to him/her regardless.
Cheers,
Markus



Posted on July 3, 2008 at 2:24 pm


Comment by otto marconi (Comment ID: 325559)

to the jehovordure anonymous above:

you gotta a good chance of remaining a worshipper of jehowhore. take full advantage of this opportunity

Enjoy



Posted on July 5, 2008 at 11:37 pm

 

Comment by Jones (Comment ID: 325808)

Markus,

Please check www.drudgereport.com in the first column, ten articles down. There is another dead sea stone that has been uncovered. Not to raise a debate, but you may find it interesting. The title of the article is “Biblical Stone Causes Stir”.



Posted on July 6, 2008 at 11:20 pm


Comment by Markus (Comment ID: 325932)

Hi Jones,
Thanks for pointing out the article, I found it very interesting. The fact it was carved in stone raises a few questions. It is also quite similar to Thomas’s gospel where Jesus could well have been a rebel in the Jewish ranks in his quest for the freedom of the Hebrews. This indeed rings with more accuracy than displayed in the NT of how the Martyr Jesus died for all our sins.
Cheers,
Markus



Posted on July 7, 2008 at 12:00 pm

 
 
 
 
 

Comment by Luis (Comment ID: 137070)

Greetings everyone! I just wanted to share this website I ran into, which would be helpful for the I-think-the-bible-is contradicting fellows around here and there (markus, fri, ber, etc) and for anyone who would like to learn more about how the Bible IS NOT contradicting:

http://www.tektonics.org/lp/merrit01.html

Well, I hope you find it useful, to all a good night.

Grace be with you,

Luis.

1 Peter 3:13-17

13Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good? 14But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. “Do not fear what they fear; do not be frightened.” 15But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. 17It is better, if it is God’s will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.



Posted on January 15, 2007 at 6:53 am


Comment by Markus (Comment ID: 137359)

Luis,

Thanks for the website, it makes for very interesting
reading.
I have seen it before and I have seen far better pro Christian websites.
I can forward them to you if you like.

There are other equally interesting Atheist websites
that bear excellent reading for those who wish to get both sides of the story.
As I fear you would never touch these Websites
for fear of your mind being opened I won’t waste time looking for them in my scrapbook, but if you are interested let me know.

Cheers,
Markus



Posted on January 15, 2007 at 2:06 pm


Comment by Luis (Comment ID: 137547)

Thanks for the well meant comment markus, don’t worry, I’m not scared on checking those sites due to the fact that I’ve seen them as well, yet the points of views that are there are similar to those we’ve been discussing for quite some time now. Imagine, if I were to fear of “touching” those websites as you kindly mentioned, then I would be acting like the jehova’s witnesses calling everyone that differs from their points of view “apostates”, everyone is entitled to give their own opinion, that has been cleared out already, yet as I said, it’s God who has an UNCHANGED saying throughout the whole Bible (His Word [2Tim 3:16-18]), and you choose to believe or not. Very well my friend, take care of yourself, and even if you don’t want to, I’ll keep praying for you, but as I said before, you’ve chosen a path already, and even if someone you know returned from the dead and told you, you still won’t believe, we’ve discussed about this before. I truly hope that one day you change, but it’s your choice.

Grace be with you,

Luis.



Posted on January 15, 2007 at 5:16 pm


Comment by Markus (Comment ID: 137917)

Luis,

Good to see you have done some internet research, and have seen all the good and not so good websites which coincidently has been my hobby for many years
and still is. Seeing as according to Google (one of many
search engines), a search on Christianity will get you
51 million sites, do a similar deed for Atheism you will get a mere 16,6 million sites.
Luckily you are not breaking one of the 10 commandments because there is none that says:
thou shalt not bullshit thy neighbor, even although
# 9 comes pretty close : Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour (KJV).

Putting that aside, can I ask you only 2 questions?
1. Seeing as medical science has improved over the years and some people can get can cured of cancer, depending on circumstances, how come Jesus gets the credit for this when 200 years ago a similar person in the same condition had to receive an early retirement from life, what has changed? Let me not bore you with the scripture that clearly says He never changes.

2. Seeing as Jesus can practically do anything, and I have seen some I’ve witnessed with my own eyes, once I saw a fellow which I have never seen before being wheeled into a charasmatic Church and after many a ‘praise the Lord’ and ‘halelujahs’, I witnessed him walking out never to be seen again. On this occasion I got quite alarmed when a very large woman grabbed hold of this disabled person’s head forced it against her large breast looked up and shouted something I could never repeat but I’m sure LAWD was in there somewhere, this woman looked crazed, spittle flowing from her mouth like a sprinkler. I looked around and most in the audience had their arms raised up or were just just looking nodding their heads as if watching something they knew what was going to happen.
On to the question, how come Jesus has so far not been able to miraculously get a severed arm or leg to grow back? May I advance an answer? Because man has not figured that one out yet, but if he does no doubt Jesus will get the credit.

Spare me the scriptures: God works in his own ways …blah….blah…. , Don’t question God’s works …more….blah… To mention a couple.

Can you give me a reasonably logical answer using your own thought patterns to these 2 simple questions?
Maybe Jesus will forget about all the starving people around the world and help you come up with a vaguely coherant answer.

Cheers,
Markus



Posted on January 15, 2007 at 11:09 pm


Comment by Luis (Comment ID: 138208)

greetings markus, I’ll just copy your inquiries (hoping that you don’t mind), it makes it easier than going back and forth to answer, I’ll put my answers this way (Luis: what I’m answering :Luis):
start end

markus wrote–>”Putting that aside, can I ask you only 2 questions?
1. Seeing as medical science has improved over the years and some people can get can cured of cancer, depending on circumstances, how come Jesus gets the credit for this when 200 years ago a similar person in the same condition had to receive an early retirement from life, what has changed? Let me not bore you with the scripture that clearly says He never changes. (Luis: ok, to begin with, when has cancer started to occur on people? Ever since the fall of man (Adam and Eve) when they sinned and death, sickness, suffering entered the world, so this is a cursed world that we live in. Something that is quite misunderstood very often is that people believe that as soon as they accept Jesus, they get cured, have money, all problems solved, etc….first of all, where did He ever say that? where in the Bible do you find that? To begin with, you can clearly see that to be Saved is be taken out from eternal punishment (hell), once you accept Christ and acknowledge that God’s Word is real, then you have hope and you put your trust on Someone that is True, who has never changed His Word, but you still continue to live in this cursed world, but you’re not of this world anymore, you are a child of God (1John 3:1). So in conclusion, everything that we have here on earth is just temporary, the real thing that comes is after we die, He doesn’t promise riches, nor good health, nor fame while you’re on earth, what He promises is eternal life with Him in Heaven, so why worry about something that is temporary (here on earth) when I know (by God’s Word) that there’s something eternal that comes afterwards. :Luis)

2. Seeing as Jesus can practically do anything, and I have seen some I’ve witnessed with my own eyes, once I saw a fellow which I have never seen before being wheeled into a charasmatic Church (Luis: they just go by experiences, it’s unfortunate you had to go to one :Luis)and after many a ‘praise the Lord’ and ‘halelujahs’, I witnessed him walking out never to be seen again (Luis: how do you know that this dude was not just some guy that they paid on the street to act it out? or maybe he’s somewhere else doing the same show :Luis). On this occasion I got quite alarmed when a very large woman grabbed hold of this disabled person’s head forced it against her large breast looked up and shouted something I could never repeat but I’m sure LAWD was in there somewhere, this woman looked crazed, spittle flowing from her mouth like a sprinkler (Luis: yeah, it’s unfortunate, they (the charismatics) put on these shows (benny hinn just to give you an example) but the problem that is all a disorder, experience here, and there, and one thing that they didn’t have the decency of checking in the Bible is that everything that is recorded on the book of Acts (that’s what they usually point out to support their doctrine) is that all those experiences mentioned had a purpose, and once the purpose was completed (for jews, gentiles, people in general, to believe) then it eventually disappeared. You can see that for example the gifts of speaking in tongues, healing, etc are not mentioned in the Epistles later on. You can clearly see that even though Paul had the gift of healing, he couldn’t heal himself, nor timothy, he just adviced him to drink some wine for his stomach problems (that doesn’t mean that you’re entitled to start drinking wine whenever you want, it would be like drinking cough syrup when you don’t have a cough, it’s common sense. :Luis) . I looked around and most in the audience had their arms raised up or were just just looking nodding their heads as if watching something they knew what was going to happen.
On to the question, how come Jesus has so far not been able to miraculously get a severed arm or leg to grow back? May I advance an answer? Because man has not figured that one out yet, but if he does no doubt Jesus will get the credit. (Luis: well dude, here we go again, when the pharisees and the scribes were asking for miracles and wonders, yet what did Jesus respond? “An evil and adulterous generation cravers for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it….” (Matthew 12:39) well you can read the whole thing if you want verses 38-45 so I don’t get blamed for using only certain words like many people do to try to prove a point and see for yourself why He is saying that. The signs, miracles and wonders had a purpose, to give Jesus the credibility of what He was saying was true, and for people to believe, yet you can notice that the signs He performed were not the most important thing, it was the Salvation message what was more important (John 3:16-18). Christ is portrayed right from the start, when God gave His promise of a Saviour (Genesis 3:15) and in many other parts of the Bible. It’s the message that you can be saved through Jesus the real important message here. God started salvation, and it’s just a gift, by God’s Grace and not of man’s works so no one may boast (Ephesians 2:8-9) :Luis) (oh, and just an add-on, check this out “For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect”(Jesus’s Words in Matthew 24:24) and guess what you see in the charismatic churches? the same thing that Jesus already said it way in advance :Luis)

Spare me the scriptures: God works in his own ways …blah….blah…. , Don’t question God’s works …more….blah… To mention a couple.” (Luis: yeah, I know, it’s pretty sad how unprepared people that say that they believe in God yet don’t know much about Him because they didn’t read His Word, take the easy way out to answer in those ways you mention :Luis)

Well my friend, I hope that the answers provided clear out what you were asking me, again, everything comes from the Word of God, and I want to take a chance to share this with you:

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 (but you can read the whole chapter if you want)
10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Check that is the judgement of God that is the consequence of one’s own action, not that He does this in advance, the more you reject the Truth, then the consequence that is for you to suffer. Take care of yourself dude, and have a good evening.

Grace be with you,

Luis.



Posted on January 16, 2007 at 4:33 am


Comment by otto marconi (Comment ID: 223335)

to Luis,
again like all christians you really disappoint.
At the end of your reply above you quote the scripture about the pharisees asking for a sign.
Well, Markus wasn’t asking for a sign, but analyzing miracles he’s spotted some blatant incongruencies. People who question jesus’ reported miracles do not ask for a sign: when do you religionists stop attaching meaning and intentions onto those who challenge you?
For example, do you remember the short story ‘Reanimator’ by HP Lovecraft? Well in this story the doctor/scientist tried to re-animate humans and animals. But he could only re-animate only those animals and humans whose death had occured only hours earlier, so very very fresh corpses.
Jesus was the same: he would only resurrect “fresh corpses”, NEVER people who had been dead for years or whose body had completely dissolved. Why?
I think for the same reason no missing limb has been seen growing back again during any modern-day miracle-event…till -as Markus wrote- they get to do that too and bamboozle more suckers still.
And if jesus is so willing to do this good why doesn’t he eliminate all evil and sorrow once and for all instead of such dubious piece-meal fashion?
If men and women are all the same why favour some only?
Because they have more faith? Well where was the faith of those supposedly dead he resurrected? Their parents faith? A proxy-faith?
And wouldn’t have been more powerful and especially more loving to actually heal also unbelievers?
When I was a JW the more I read the bible the more questions arose, and I know no logic answer will ever come. Not to mention the dismay and abhorrence I developed due to the explicit and implicit meanings and implications of the bible “teaching”.
That’s why if you come my place you’ll see copies of the bible in my bathroom which we regularly use when we run out of the more useful and soft regular toilet paper. No kidding.



Posted on June 10, 2007 at 9:06 am


Comment by Luis (Comment ID: 246697)

wow! I haven’t seen a reply in ages! Yet the same thing happens when people don’t have the decency to check on the postings and stuff that were written before *sigh*. My recommendation to “otto marconi”, dude, read all the other postings that were posted at the bottom, and at the top, and then if you have something useful to say, post it. Take care, and hope you have a nice day.

Grace be with you,

Luis.

1 John 5:10
The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son.



Posted on July 17, 2007 at 8:39 am


Comment by otto marconi (Comment ID: 315025)

to luis,

yes you’re right, the bible is right, and never contradicts itself, and I’m crazy because in spite of the fact that the bible is perfect I still see it as the worst and most dangerous fundamentalist manifesto so full of contradictions that there is no verse that it’s not contradicted by another. But I’m crazy you know?

So since I and billions of other people are so bad as to totally disregard the bible because we think it’s the most ridiculous, pathetic, farcical BS ever written we will burn forever in hell and you will fart next to jesus in heaven.



Posted on May 11, 2008 at 7:01 pm

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Comment by Servant (Comment ID: 256621)

The web sight appears to make issue of the fact Jehovah’s Witnesses have been highlighting “to keep on the watch…prove yourself ready” in harmony with the scripture in Matthew 24 and certain changed viewpoints over the years as some how demonstrating that Jehovah’s Witnesses in those matters are at fault for attempting to put meaning into scripture at those times when those interpretations were given. It also seems a “spin from that is taken to disbelieve to not keep on the watch and prove yourself ready” is the motive for ridiculer’s.

Granted their has been error’s as pointed out but in all fairness a critical thinker could easily state well putting yourself back in time to say pre-1900 and then see if you would have predicted “1914 as a marked year” for world shattering events to have taken place?

It if possible to re-enact would find those most vocal attempting to make fun of such predictions as erroneously inapt at doing any better as a most probable outcome. What need not be lost sight of was the early Bible students could see from the dating scriptures and Jesus sign of his presence and the conclusion of this system of things prophecy at Luke 12 that it from the “world at that time and from their concept of time appeared to be the beginning of the end and that things once commenced would follow each other in quick succession.

So the year was right 1914 “for world catastrophic events to occur” but their expectations of what would unfold at that time were misleading because Jesus said that “it would be the beginning of pains of distress” not the end of those pains see Matthew 24 verse 8 “not the finish”. At that time they did not have Almighty God’s entire view but to reverse any critics it “did prove a time to be ready” at least for the commencement of the sign proving they were receptive to what the Bible had at that time allowed them to see along with other Adventist Bible followers all at that time were watching and attempting to interpret the meaning.

No one can dispute the commencement date was correct given the fact it corresponds correctly with the outbreak of “World War 1″, of “nation rising against nation and kingdom against kingdom” verse 7. Further in response that “Jehovah’s Witnesses will predict the end of this world until the end of this world” is “spot on”. The reason is simply in that prophecy Jesus did say that “this generation will not pass away until all these things occur” highlights a few things. One that by stating a “generation will not pass away until all these things occur” is implying a long period of time would pass from the sign of Christ’s presence in 1914 until his return in Kingdom Glory and Power to reform the entire Earth under God’s Kingdom Rule.

Secondly the scripture in Peter outlined in reference to this event of Divine Intervention that a “day with Jehovah is a thousand years” just merely to emphasis Jehovah God’s view of time but then narrow the application with contextual words indicating a “time period would pass” by linking that with “as some think he is slow” hence harmonizing with Jesus “generation time period” that a long time would pass but not beyond the generation that saw events of 1914 symbolically hence the continued emphasis on “proving yourself ready is paramount”.

Whilst the generation that saw 1914 is very nearly passed away heightens the urgency! By proving yourself ready to the time prophecy is vital!

Each year that goes by must be getting very close and even in that prophecy at Matthew 24 verse 36 it clearly states that only God himself only no the actual date of intervention. So hence any ill directed attack against Witnesses is highlighting narrow mindedness and not sighting those scriptures that those “other predictions” are human error not God’s and must be treated as such and correctly so the Witnesses are constantly reminded to “prove yourself ready”. Which person is faultless judge others?

Hence the point is made the “Bible is not contradictory” even if some may speculate on dates. Rember only God knows “day and hour”, of intervention.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are not immune from getting some things wrong needing re-view but as have shown they have consistently maintained that 1914 was a “marked year” proven correct. Hence “time of End closer now”.

The above only assists others to see the “key prophecies of God’s will are imitate to be for- filled in our generation”. The question is how many readers want to be their when God Intervenes in man’s affairs and takes over rulership of the Earth of Mankind on his terms not ours? First all critics have a bleak future to attempt to talk back to God the life breath giver.

Make no mistake he does not need us but we need him to forgive our sins through Christ. We also need to be doing what God Requires of us on arrival. By exercising “faith and doing God’s will” may gain approval by God.

True in the event that the Organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses may have any case to answer then Jehovah God will hold them accountable. Please do not loss sight of the accountability of all of mankind because if “judgement starts with the house of God” Bethel Jehovah’s Witnesses Headquarters means “house of God” where will all these readers get a showing?

Tread carefully in critizing Jehovah’s Witnesses take the “mirror out and lock at yourself”? By doing an Act of kindness to Christ Brothers is rewarded according to Matthew 25 verse 37-45 in event some are so?

Theirs an “old proverb” “he that thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall”! Also if “errors is what God looks at who could stand”?

In Bible book of Peter it outlined that “Ridiculars would come Ridiculing from their own desires stating where is his presence mocking the message bearer in effect”, hence has not the article given fertile fuel for such ‘Ridicule’ but do not loss sight that “such Ridicule may” actually “be for filling God’s Word” by those whom choose to Ridicule Jehovah’s Witnesses.

The scripture states “he that does the will of God remains forever” and added to this as pointed out above “Jehovah’s Witnesses will continue to predict end until it does come” , so “prove yourself ready for that end”!



Posted on August 9, 2007 at 2:44 pm

 
 

Comment by annonymous (Comment ID: 136918)

luis what is your personal witness for christ. How did you hear the good-news’ and what was the word that really convicted you?



Posted on January 15, 2007 at 2:38 am


Comment by Luis (Comment ID: 136945)

I was ready to leave, but I saw this message, so I’ll respond quick. I’m gonna use your comment and respond there (in parenthesis) if you don’t mind.

Comment by annonymous (Comment ID: 136918)
luis what is your personal witness for christ. How did you hear the good-news’(a friend shared the gospel with me many years ago) and what was the word that really convicted you? (do you mean “convinced”? if you made a typo, that’s ok, well, in the beginning I had lots of questions just like anyone else when he/she is new to the matter, but there is one thing that it’s totally true, God draws the person to know Him, it’s interesting, but I remember that before I accepted Christ to be my Saviour, I was looking for answers, I thought I had them, but I realized I didn’t, that’s why I thank God that He took the veil out of my eyes and let me see His Truth, it’s all in the Bible, God’s Word. I chose to believe in Christ, because He IS the Truth (John 14:6). Ok, ok, I gotta run now, but I hope I was helpful, whoever you are.

Blessings,

Luis.



Posted on January 15, 2007 at 4:04 am


Comment by Markus (Comment ID: 137988)

Luis,

Waal ain’t you just a lucky son of a gun. Jesus saw fit to let the veil be lifted and so you are saved. Whoopie I say, thank God for your good fortune. Spare a thought for the starving kids in Sudan and Ethiopia
who don’t go to school, don’t drive around in cars, do not have the everyday problem of whether they will get that raise or not, or perhaps how to loose those extra 10 kilos that somehow, incredibly the God of fat bestowed upon them.
Fact is these kids spend most of their time crawling around in the dirt, not for the latest specimen for their biology class, but to eat. Because good Jesus forgot about them but prefers a fat American or the equally adept European to go to heaven because the veil was unlifted.
Why don’t you join a really good organization, like ‘food for Africa’ or ‘benefits for DRC victims’?
These orgs can be found on the internet, look them up and donate some small change, trust me it’s a helluva
lot better than giving 10% of your earnings to some liar
on stage promising you eternal life.

Cheers,
Markus



Posted on January 16, 2007 at 12:28 am


Comment by fri (Comment ID: 138270)

Markus, that post was very touching and close to my heart as my wife and I do lot of work with various charities. It is incredible how we live in somehow civilized world, discovered the cure for many diseases and unfortunately children still go to school without breakfast and lunch on a daily basis, these poor kids have one meal per day.
We are trying to work a program with the government and private companies to see if we can remedy the situation. Where is this love of God I ask, certainly he is not doing as much as we are to resolve the problem. Why can’t the Jesus of Luis do something about it? Apparently the moron (Luis) does seem to believe he has the powers. How many more millions of humans will suffer for the mistake of one man, Adam? Can one still say he is a god of love?
You think Luis could email his god and ask him for a solution? I would do that myself but unfortunately I don’t have his email.
Just wait and see how the moron will post some more scriptures, yet where are the answers?
It is really dumb how people can believe in something for thousands of years without a shred of evidence and claiming to be created in the image of God.

markus have you heard anything from James? I have not heard from him in a while.

11:45Pm time to go sleep



Posted on January 16, 2007 at 5:46 am


Comment by Luis (Comment ID: 138281)

fri, the answer is there above…. I mean further up where markus and I are talking (you might in your understanding believed that I was talking about the clouds so just to make myself clear :-) ) And below where you talk about the morality case, there are answers as well. Yup, it’s late, gotta go nighty night, so take care of yourself dude.

Grace be with you,

Luis.



Posted on January 16, 2007 at 5:58 am


Comment by Elliot (Comment ID: 139328)

Poverty is a concequence of sin. It is neither caused by God, nor the devil, but by us, all of us, our ancestors included.

Third world poverty is a result of selfish colonial policies, proverty in our cities by lack of concern, poverty in some places are due to our wetern cultures do not help enough, or care enough.

We are all guilty in contributing to poverty, one way or another, and we all should do something about it.

As a Christian I would never dream of saying to a starving child “Don’t worry, God has a plan”, I would give him/her something to eat.

I can’t bear those of us who go to poor countries for flash vacations and complain about lack of ameneties and about the fact they were overcharged by a dollar. If we must go to such places on holiday, each one of us should try to make whatever contribution they can to help somebody. If every fairly affluent person in the world looked after just one or two poor people, we would have no poverty.

I am not saying I am perfect; I am well aware I can do more, but I don’t like people putting blame where it does not belong. Poverty is our fault, nobody else’s.

End of story



Posted on January 16, 2007 at 8:03 pm

 
 

Comment by Mldeacs (Comment ID: 138568)

Hey fri,

Yep this Luis fellow is a real card, he has all the answers, I ask him how come your savior allows children to starve? His brilliant answer is don’t worry this life is only temporary, I wish he could get over there and see the conditions those people live in, and convince the starving boy and girl not to worry cause Jesus has a plan.

Seems James is keeping a low profile, haven’t heard from him either.

Cheers,
markus



Posted on January 16, 2007 at 9:27 am


Comment by Luis (Comment ID: 141168)

markus, if I had all the answers, I would be God, and that’s not true. Elliot has a very good answer (you should read it) so obviously if you have the chance to help, why deny the help? Though you can share the gospel with those poor people, you can also give them financial help, that’s something that we should all do. Ok, gotta go, take care dude (I notice you have another nick as well, but it ain’t important, just wanted to let you know I noticed)

Grace be with you,

Luis.



Posted on January 17, 2007 at 9:26 pm


Comment by anonymous (Comment ID: 256565)

To certain ones,

Re-viewing certain comments it reminds of the scriptural account of how the “demon possessed people followed Jesus around” and at times Jesus had to “put up with the demons speaking to him from the person whom they had control over”. On other occasions “demon possessed persons sort healing”.

The account showed Jesus had little time for “demons” and on one occasion reproved “satan the leader of the demons” not once but three times stating “go away it is written” quoting from the scriptures on each time and eventually “satan left to a more convenient time”.

As Jesus set the “pattern for us to follow” certain repeat persons after three times reproving them from scripture simply ignore them as unintelligent especially if they are ex-Jehovah’s witlessness for in event they continue to follow certain God fearing persons around then Jesus teachings were to Separate effectively and in thus symbolically telling them to “GO AWAY”!

Any person whom has studied the Bible sees the methods of “demons use of people under their influence”. Jesus only assisted those seeking his help by which he used the “Spirit force” to expel those persons demons, and immediately they were expelled the person was cured indicating what it will be like in God’s Kingdom were righteousness is to dwell.

Their in “lies the test”, if a person chooses to ignore God’s Conditions for salvation by exercising “faith in the provisions for life everlasting” then they only have themselves to blame as unintelligent persons behaving like animals pursuant to the description in the book of James and certain persons may well have demonstrated their likeness to animals in their comments unintelligent lacking “Human qualities having been Created in God’s Image via our forefather Adam”. Jesus also said if people are undeserving “dust of your feet and walk away” you are not to continue unproductive conversations but reprove with severity!

The commission is to preach the “Good News of the Kingdom” to remove pain and suffering on the terms and conditions outlined within the scriptures for all honest hearted ones to respond in “sincerity of heart and dedicate themselves to do God’s Will”. If people do not want to respond and only seek to belittle you for any assistance one may offer then that is there choice. It follows likewise them having made that decision for a “witnesses to symbolically dust off their feet” and move on to “those deserving and separate from bad association” and “goat will remain a goat” because they show no indication of repentance.

On the other hand in Jesus day those having “demon problems” that sort help exercising faith got healed. The powers of using the Spirit for healing the scriptures prove has finished. Hence all those that have witnessed such healings in our day are actually witnessing the power of demons mimic-ing Jesus using their spirit force to mislead unsuspecting ones to mislead.

It appears a certain one claims to be an ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses and uses “loose conduct” a thing that does not befit holy people according to scriptures hence Paul took the disciples and separate from those undeserving so as those “eye witnesses could see those were unapproved from God’s viewpoint”. Jehovah God will execute judgement not man so their argument is with God himself not man and yet the scripture states the “demons no there is a God and they shudder”. The “demons no their time is up”. They are active every where since losing the battle in heaven. The scriptures indicate they will attempt to mislead even the chosen ones.

Eve sinned “because she kept listening to satan” using the serpent as a mouth peace. So why keep listening to any person whom chooses to disobey God’s Word and not seek help to free themselves from demons rather than demonstrate they seek no assistance by keeping to reply to such ones. Jesus set pattern simply said “go away satan it is written”, hence if persons do not want Bible answers to their questions you effectively are at the wrong place “Go Away”. Jesus warned their “would be mockers like in Noah’s day” and they “took no note”, “untill the Divine judgement arrived”, then, “they took note it implies”, but it was to late they lost their lives “their choice”!



Posted on August 9, 2007 at 11:00 am

 
 
 
 

Comment by Anonymous (Comment ID: 256630)

“Reap What Sow”

Perhaps if you read your Bible and blamed the right dupe for all the starving kids in Sudan on the “rider of the pale faced horse or black horse in Revelation”, then you may have blamed the right dupe. By the way the White Horse is riden by Christ Jesus he’s going to round up those jupe’s soon along with all those slandering his name. Happy hunting the one on the White horse in removing the reproach form God’s name for being blamed unjustly! It is not time for Christ to act but when he does it will be swift!

Satan the adversery is responsible for those suffering in all countries Christ is going to put an end to the root when he locks the old dragan in the abbs!

He’s then going to administer the blessings to all those that have been illtreated against God’s Commands and hold those responsibile accountable!

It is fine if in the meantime someone may be in a position to give relief but according to each ones means. It is also the choice of all persons how they spend their own monies and not to judge your fellow man. For instance one person may want to expend their money on “extensive internet Usage” but fail to spend that portion upon giving to those needy children in Sudan, true?

The other may likewise expend a portion upon the Internet and also a portion elswhere like the first person also may expend a further portion of his money elsewhere. Does that mean that the first may critisis the second? Never may that happen because that is a form of coveting roundly condemned in God’s Word. ALso in modern terms rights of each one to decide for ones self and if you personally have a desire to give more “who is holding you back”. Remeber the wealthy nations have enough food to feed the starving but they hold back so why judge your neighbour would you want them to judge you surley not so if you want to give, give silently!



Posted on August 9, 2007 at 3:27 pm


Comment by Markus (Comment ID: 257237)

To : 256630.

Well here we have it again folks, blame Satan, the poor scapegoat, for without which the existence of, most religions would fall apart. No one would even consider blaming Biblegod, who after all had the insight to create Satan and evil, by his own admission. “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil I the LORD do all these things.” (Isaiah 45:7)

Here are some actions of the Deity whose ass you kiss:
Though he said “Thou shalt not kill,” he ordered death for all opposition, wholesale drowning and mass exterminations (How many infants and children were killed by God in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? How many infants and children were killed by God during the “Great” flood?); punishing offspring to the fourth generation (Ex. 20:5); ordering pregnant women and children to be ripped up (Hos. 13:16); demanding animal and human blood to appease his angry vanity; is partial to one race of people; judges women to be inferior to men; is a sadist who created a hell to torture unbelievers; discriminated against the handicapped (Lev. 21:18-23); ordered virgins to be kept as spoils of war (Num. 31:15-18, Deut. 21:11-14); sent bears to devour 42 children who teased a prophet (II Kings 2:23-24); punished people with snakes, dogs, dragons, drunkenness, swords, arrows, axes, fire, famine, and infanticide; and said fathers should eat their sons (Ez. 5:10).

Not bad for a squeaky clean god eh, and you think Satan is the evil one. How many young children died? They must die you will say because they inherit their fathers sin, just as we inherited Adam’s original sin. Now read Deuteronomy 24:16 where the contrary is taught.

You Jehovah’s Witnesses make me sick. You believe the NWT is the most accurate version of the Bible because you are told it is, and if you dare to do any research to prove or disprove this you will be counselled
against using your own brain. You sorry lot are so brainwashed you do not even realise it, you are making your precious WTBT society rich and you believe you are doing good, as long as you do not start thinking for yourself you will be held in good standing.

Your society has come up with many dates referring to the end of the world, your excuse is “we were mistaken, but at least we are trying or how about the ‘new light’ theory”, so how come you do not re-imberse the faithful who sold their homes, who allowed their children to die, for refusing inoculations, who refused pensions and are now forced to eat dog food?
Here is a scripture you can put in your pipe and smoke:
“However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak… that prophet must die. …How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken? When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak”. Deuteronomy 18: 20-22, taken from your own translation. (Note the must die part).

Why don’t you study the Bible not from within but use external sources it is so easy with the internet nowadays? Why don’t you one day batten down the hatches so no eves dropping brother or sister can report you; and do some real studying.
You will find amazing things such as the fables of Adam and Eve, and the great deluge not being unique to the Bible, in fact you will find earlier versions, not
exactly the same but similar enough to realize that plagiarism is indeed present.
Do a Google on the historical existence of Jesus, you will find to your dismay a remarkable absence of his mention at all, truly incredible it has to be said, for someone who had such a following; the miniscule amount there is, has clear evidence of original historical manuscripts being forged, probably by the early Catholic clergy, who like you do not have a religion without Jesus; and no religion = no money.

Read the articles on this site, you will find all kinds of interesting articles like how Charles T. Russell used the pyramids to calculate the end happening in 1874, later revised to 1914. If you think these articles are biased or false in any way I assure you they are not, but don’t take my word for it get off your ass and do your own research.

Please do not come on this site and tell me how to live my life when you do not even have a clue what life is.

You are taught not to think but how to think, the young third Reich Hitler youths had the same indoctrination.
Many of us on this site are ex JW, and the main reason for this is we decided to study the Bible as opposed to be told what to study in the Bible.

Cheers,
Markus



Posted on August 11, 2007 at 1:35 pm

 
 
 
 
 

Comment by creationist (Comment ID: 136452)

Well its true what the bible says ‘ don’t get involved with senseless debates,and arguments because they can over turn those listening.’
The fellows have raised some interesting ideas as to why they don’t believe. it is sufficient to say that God says what can be known about him can be discerned by the creation onwards. So not even turning to scripture as you guys look at the creation you should be able to discern the wonderful design and laws that are created into the creation, itself. Law order and beauty abound.we rely on these laws to study and learn and grow. they were there long before man came on the spot and we are discovering marvelous things every day.God does state in scripture about discerning him in the creation, that there is no excuse for not knowing or reverencing him as god. So the decision to leave him out of your reasoning, comes from desires within that conflict with his moral code and turns one in on the creation itself where one places men or institutions in place of the almighty god .it allows one to continue in practises contrary to nature.



Posted on January 14, 2007 at 6:08 am

 

Comment by Luis (Comment ID: 135915)

I just wanted to share this with you, believers out there.

Ephesians 1:7-10

Christ sacrificed his life’s blood to set us free,
which means that our sins are now forgiven. Christ
did this because God was so kind to us. God has great
wisdom and understanding, and by what Christ has done, God has shown us his own mysterious ways.

Then when the time is right, God will do all that he
has planned, and Christ will bring together
everything in heaven and on earth.

Blessings,

Luis.



Posted on January 13, 2007 at 7:23 pm

 

Comment by Elliot (Comment ID: 135387)

Louis raised an interesting and useful point. There are quite a few people writing here strongly arguing for Atheism, or for such ideas that God is evil, or for the notion that Christianity does not have a founder.

These people seem to have left the Jehova’s Witnesses, but they have retained the most distasteful aspects of theat religion: intolerance to the point of bigotry, a compulsion to “win” any argument at any cost, a simplistic view of the scriptures, a narrow, dogmatic way of thinking.

These people have simply replaced one false system with another, and use the same methods to promote it as before. They even happy use personal attacks and insults, if they cannot think of any other way to argue.

The people who have gone through the unfortunate experience with the Jehovah’s witnesses deserve the encouragement to rebuilt their faith on a more secure foundation. They deserve the best help on offer, and not some home-brew philosophy resigned to attack anyone who has any faith.

There are also those who post here who have something constructive to say, but each time they do, they get attacked. Some of these people remind me of the Pharasees asking “Why don’t you climb down from the cross?” They would not recognise God if he stood in front of them and slapped them in the face, and they cannot make sense of God’s word, because they have read much but understood nothing.



Posted on January 13, 2007 at 12:21 pm


Comment by Elliot (Comment ID: 135616)

Just to ensure that there is not confusion as to who I am referring to in my comment: I mean those who are Jehovah’s witnesses in attitude and approach, but have replaced the Jehovah’s Witnesses doctrine with one of their own: Markus, ber, Fri Jesuswho?? and so on.

Some or all of these may well be the same person, writing using different names, dominating this site with their bitter and twisted ideology.



Posted on January 13, 2007 at 2:42 pm


Comment by Peter (Comment ID: 135708)

Elliot,

I could not agree more. May be we should call this little clique the “Falling Tower” organisation. Do they meet in a building called the “Hall of Dispair” or the “Hall of Anger”? Maybe they have a publication house called “the daily poison”?

They have no respect for anybody with a view different to theirs at all. I think you are right, some of their stuff is so outlandinshly crazy that it probably is just one person using different names.

I am certainly tired reading their self-righteous, know-all comments, worse than any fundamentalist.

No doubt both of us are getting a whole lot of abuse from their indiscrete servant, Markus, which will just show their bigotry even more.



Posted on January 13, 2007 at 4:11 pm


Comment by young fart (Comment ID: 135746)

I could not agree more. May be we should call this little clique the “ChangingTower” organisation. Do they meet in a building called the “Kingdom Hell” or the “The Borg”? Maybe they have a publication house called “is the new light coming”?
They have no respect for anybody with a view different to theirs at all. I think you are right, some of their stuff is so outlandishly crazy that it probably is just one person using different names.
I am certainly tired reading their self-righteous, know-all comments, worse than any fundamentalist.
Lets wait and see what the faithfull and discreet slave next says:



Posted on January 13, 2007 at 4:49 pm

 

Comment by hidden in Christ (Comment ID: 136424)

Elliot and peter. love your remarks, because although many of us have been expelled as apostates because our love for Christ means to obey him has put us on a collision course with the organization, does not mean we have lost our faith in Jesus Christ our Lord, the son of God. And because of what we have experienced we are able to share and encourage others to rest their faith on a sure foundation that jehovah set in place with Jesus Christ as the foundation stone and the Apostles. But even though we try to encourage , we also need the encouragement of others with faith, because we are generally called by the organization ‘apostates’ then we are called by other christians as being in a ‘cult’ because we don’t fit in with their teachings of trinity, then our own relatives are uncomfortable with us because we are ‘religious’. No wonder jesus said ‘you are no part of the world, we are really aliens.’ and though we are not alone we feel like jesus did when he said ‘ the son of man has nowhere to lay his head.’ so your words did give me encouragement.



Posted on January 14, 2007 at 4:03 am

 
 

Comment by Markus (Comment ID: 135928)

To Elliot,

I suggest you be sure of your facts before you make an idiot of yourself in regard to your fantasies as to the authors of certain comments.
If you think I became an atheist on the spur of the moment, all I can say is it’s your brain, and you are entitled to think what you like.
I never became an Atheist overnight, after spending 14 years as a JW I spent a further 9 years studying the Bible, this was before the internet was a household item, and I spent most of my free time doing a thing called research, in libraries and attending seminars, look ‘research’ up in you dictionary because clearly you have never done any, I’ll bet you don’t even know half of what is written in your own Bible.
It is because of this thing called EVIDENCE I have the viewpoints I now hold, nothing else has influenced me.
Unlike you I trust my own instincts and not those of mindless others who follow other people like sheep.
You, and now Peter use what I call drive by reasoning, you have not even a clue what is going on and as you drive by you shout: “Idiot, you are wrong”.
Incredibly you expect me to drop my thinking abilities and follow your viewpoint as followed by the rest of the zombies.
Get a life you narrow minded idiots!

Markus



Posted on January 13, 2007 at 7:31 pm


Comment by Elliot (Comment ID: 135951)

That’s right, Markus, if nothing else works, verbal abuse is always the last resort, is it not?

Evidence? Don’t make me laugh. You have provided not a shred of evidence for your outlandish assertions. All you have tried to do is to ridicule evidence to the contrary given to you.

You hold a belief system of your own making, no more, and you are the one who is too narrow-minded to even notice that.



Posted on January 13, 2007 at 7:43 pm


Comment by Luis (Comment ID: 136010)

Elliot, by markus’s own words “Unlike you I trust my own instincts….” proves what I’ve been saying from the beginning, he is following someone….himself (obviously the same way that many others do), now how trustworthy can we actually be if we depend on our own changing selves? We can have an idea, opinion, feeling right now, the next minute it’s totally different, so how can we really say that we can trust ourselves if we keep changing and changing and changing….and whether you recognize it or not, you always get some influence from somewhere. As I said before, only God is True, and will never change His Word, for “It is written….” (Matthew 4:4). So like I told markus, he can keep trying to prove to himself, drag others to believe him, or whatever, with his so called “evidence”, let him be, but one thing is for sure, there will be a lot of people that follow the one True Way which is Christ and prove markus and friends wrong, but as predictable as their answers will be, they won’t care, or insult, or whatnut. May God show His Divine Mercy on them and enlighten their rock-hardened hearts, take care.

Blessings,

Luis.



Posted on January 13, 2007 at 8:49 pm


Comment by Peter (Comment ID: 136035)

Hi Luis and Elliot,

Yes,, I think that Markus and friends are essentially proclaiming a religion of their own, perhaps we can call is “Markusism”.

The main teachings seem to be: There is no God. Jesus is an invention. There is no afterlife. The God revealed in the bible is evil.

The key fact is that all of these assertions are BELIEFS. There is no proof that there is no God. There is no proof that there is no real Jesus. The idea of an evil God in the bible is an old heresy, long since exposed as false. The idea comes from poor understanding of the scriptures.

Another feature of this religion is that is is just as intolerant as JW and, while they all accept their own beliefs without proof, they expect proof from everybody else, so they have hypocritical double-standards.

Another similarity with JW is the persistently hostile tone they use when they meet anyone they perceive as a threat to their own little world.



Posted on January 13, 2007 at 9:19 pm

 
 
 
 

Comment by Markus (Comment ID: 136117)

To Rado,
I don’t know if you will catch this, however it would be a little comfort to those we debate against, if you could ascertain that Markus, fri and Whatever are not one and the same fellow.
Luis, Elliot and Peter may also wish to come under the same scrutiny so as to prove themselves unlike as we are accused by them.
Cheers and thanks again for a great site.
Markus



Posted on January 13, 2007 at 11:07 pm

 
 

Comment by old fart (Comment ID: 135742)

To elliot=====Jesuswho, has raised an interesting and useful point. There are quite a few people writing here strongly arguing for Christianity, or for such ideas that God is good, or for the notion that Christianity is the way to go.
These people seem to have joined the Jehovah’s witnesses or other churches, but they have retained the most distasteful aspects of other people regarding religion: intolerance to the point of bigotry, a compulsion to “win” any argument at any cost, a simplistic view of the scriptures, a narrow, dogmatic way of thinking.
These people have simply replaced one false system with another (catholic to Jehovah’s witness or vice versa) , and use the same methods to promote it as before. They even use personal attacks and insults, if they cannot think of any other way to argue they just go on quoting another scripture.
The people who have gone through the experience with the Jehovah’s witnesses think they are the true Christians and therefore will live forever. They deserve the best help on offer, and not some home-brew cult that totally brainwashes their minds by telling them what to do with their lives.
There are also those who post here who have something constructive to say like fri, markus, ber, , but each time they do, they get attacked from the Christians or jw’s who think have all the answers and continuously quote scriptures from the so called good book when they cannot answer the questions. Some of these people remind me of the Pharisees who thought were righteous.



Posted on January 13, 2007 at 4:45 pm


Comment by Elliot (Comment ID: 135939)

To the apparently official response from the “Fallen Tower” organisation (I like that expession, Peter):

Simply aping my contribution, and twisting it in the process shows how little of constructive thought you really have to contribute.

You expect “proof” for every point made by any Christian from whatever background, but you supply no proof of your own. No evidence given by any Christian will ever be good enough for you, simply because they have faith and you do not. People like Manfred are silly to even engage into a conversation with you. Manfred, can you not see that they just use you to make fun of you? You, Markus and the others, are not interested in answers, you just want to try to destroy the faith of others.

Just because you have lost your faith, something once very precious to you, you seem to have developed a compulsion to destroy in others what you do no longer have. Nobody is so blind as the person who does not want to see. You are like a child jealous of another child’s toy, who rather does not play at all than to share.

Louis took the time to explain his point of view. You can take it or leave it, but his point of view is as least as valid as yours, in fact most people would argue much more so.

Elliot Picking



Posted on January 13, 2007 at 7:37 pm

 
 

Comment by anonymous (Comment ID: 256588)

Your comment seems to imply that certain ones “cannot make sense of God’s Word”. You earlier quoted seemingly from “God’s Word” when you said “why don’t you climb down from the cross” .

A man of God does not have to argue, merely reprove from scripture. Hence as it seems likely that you do not use Jehovah’s Witnesses Bible “The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures”, will for your benefit quote an interesting scripture in relation to your comment implying Jesus was hung upon a “Cross”. According to the King James Version authorized to be read in Churches the scripture at Acts 5 verse 30 sheds “light”. It states “The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree”. You note Jesus was hanged upon a “TREE” rather than a “Cross”.

The historic record an archeology prove that in the first century time when Christ was put to death supports that they hung people of “Stakes or single pole tree trunks” not two pieces of wood at angles to one another. That is why Watchtower magazines portray Jesus as hanging upon a single “Tree” or “Stake”. Further the historians in checking the Original King James Bible have found in the order of 20,000 mistakes in translation from the original text. However this does not impede a Bible student that cross-references and proof test reads the scriptures in getting the “real meaning”. I raise this point merely as “You finished your posting by stating implying Witnesses “that they have read much but understand nothing”.

Hence respectfully perhaps it is yourself “that has read much but understand [dare I say it] understand nothing”. Just for the record the King James Bible in most other places has the word “Cross” in other passages however the original manuscripts and archeology findings link “Crosses to pagans and especially to the earlier kingdom of “Babylon” in Iraq.

That is why Revelation speaking in symbolic language chapter 17 referring to the “Harlot” which symbolically means religion unfaithful to God’s Word by “mixing religion with attempting to influence politics” depicts the “world empire of false religions that have have undertones of pagan symbolism in their forms of worship”. Hence “Crosses in Churches” assist those understanding their Bibles to identify those false religions a part of Babylon.

It is also noted that “those religions and their adherents” attempt to “symbolically kill those bearing witnesses to Jesus” see Revelation 17 verse 6. Jehovah’s Witnesses do bear witness to Jesus less the “Crosses”. Perhaps this may assist you to retract your unfounded view in relation to “whom may understand much” to lift “yourself from understanding little,” to “something.” Your words seem to be symbolic attack against witnesses.

Perhaps rather than focus on Jehovah’s Witnesses you may care to see that Revelation 18:4 is attempting to encourage yourself to get out of “Babylon the Great” representing the world empire of these false religions linking to pagan symbolism and seek assistance from some courteous Jehovah’s Witnesses when they next call they will be more than happy to assist you.

The Bible says the “one being reproved does not like the one reproving them” in Proverbs but also states “the one that is wise will listen to counsel”.



Posted on August 9, 2007 at 12:29 pm

 
 

Comment by Luis (Comment ID: 124686)

to all, my bad, sorry, I accidentaly hit the mouse button twice because I forgot to include the person’s name I was addressing to in the “p.s.” comment. Just “collapse” one of them, that is, if you’re interested in reading what it says. Ok, nighty night.

Blessings,

Luis.



Posted on January 4, 2007 at 5:26 am


Comment by Luis (Comment ID: 124687)

Just wanted to share a thought with all of you:
“It is not things that we need, but Christ.”



Posted on January 4, 2007 at 5:29 am


Comment by fri (Comment ID: 125039)

Luis,
Christ did not pay for my house, does not pay the phone bill, the electric bill. He is not paying for my sons private school, nor the clothes he wears neither did Jesus pay for all the necessary things I have in my house. I am not a rocket scientist but I realized from from an earlier age that I need things more than i need Christ.

Are all your possessions charged to his account???



Posted on January 4, 2007 at 1:36 pm


Comment by Luis (Comment ID: 132978)

to fri,

And you happen to have all of those things, because…. here is my response:

Colossians 1:16:17

For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him: And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.

Have a nice day,

Luis.



Posted on January 11, 2007 at 6:24 pm

 

Comment by fri (Comment ID: 133009)

Luis, you are very much mistaken; Jesus did not create any of the things I mention. My house which cost me a bit of money was built or constructed by someone else.

He did not discovered electricity either; it was Franklin’s in 1752, 1700 years after Jesus death. Jesus did not make nor he discovered clothes, hell he did not even know what a pair of pants was, didn’t Jesus wear a skirt or some type of a dress??

You are too brainwashed by the WT to see what is going on my friend.
According to your little world (kingdom hall) there are only 2 people to blame for everything: Jesus for the good and Satan for the bad right???

Please do get a life and educate yourself.



Posted on January 11, 2007 at 7:16 pm

 

Comment by fri (Comment ID: 133010)

Luis, you are very much mistaken; Jesus did not create any of the things I mention. My house which cost me a bit of money was built or constructed by someone else.

He did not discovered electricity either; it was Franklin’s in 1752, 1700 years after Jesus death. Jesus did not make nor he discovered clothes, hell he did not even know what a pair of pants was, didn’t Jesus wear a skirt or some type of a dress??

You are too brainwashed by the WT to see what is going on my friend.
According to your little world (kingdom hall) there are only 2 people to blame for everything: Jesus for the good and Satan for the bad right???

Please do get a life and educate yourself.



Posted on January 11, 2007 at 7:16 pm


Comment by Luis (Comment ID: 133114)

Well fri, if you would’ve had the decency to check on what was posted before on the debate that went on with markus and company, you would’ve realized that I don’t belong and have never belonged nor will belong to the watchtower crew. As I mentioned before, it’s your choice what or who you want to believe and follow (i.e. scientists, the world, yourself, etc) I’m not here to convince anyone, the Truth is plain and simple and that is JesusChrist (John 14:6) So here I’ll share something I heard before that I found pretty interesting: “the discovery of something is what was unknown, yet existed before it was discovered.” Did electricity started when franklin discovered it? The answer is obvious. And you can see with your own remarks that there’s a cause and effect situation, so where did everything start? Again the answer is obvious, yet many people just don’t accept it. And by the way, I already have a life, and abundantly (John 5:24). For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain (Philippians 1:21). Grace be with you.



Posted on January 11, 2007 at 9:02 pm


Comment by fri (Comment ID: 133132)

To Luis, Whatever makes you tick.
If you think that the answer for you is Jesus more power to you.
To my opinion, Jesus, God, the Devil just take too much credit for things they have nothing to do with.

I happen to live in a place that gets lots of hurricanes, when they come I don’t put my trust in Jesus/God whatever you want to call it. Plywood on the windows and doors is what is going to do the trick, it has worked for many years now. The people who put trust in Jesus/God and don’t board their houses learn the hard way that Jesus/God is not the answer.

Yep, I have heard that before (john 5:24) about the everlasting life, unfortunately I have never met nor heard of anyone who has attained such for the last 2000 years, unless of course you can prove me wrong.

As for (phil 1:21)that was the opinion of one man (Paul) if I still remember from my days of church going. However you should read a few more verses prior to that one to really understand what is going on. Verse 20…..my expectation and my hope……. and my friend that is what faith is all about… expectation of the things hoped for but not realized.
I keep hoping that I get the lottery, but just because I hope does that mean I will get it????

Please refrain yourself from picking a verse from here and there to make your point, otherwise I could say something like this:
“Judas went out and hung himself.”–Matt. 27:5
“Go and do likewise.”–Luke 10:37
Do you get the point my friend?



Posted on January 11, 2007 at 9:27 pm


Comment by Markus (Comment ID: 134115)

fri,
This Luis fellow has Jesus embedded in the brain.
I’ve gone many a round with him and get the usual fundamental feedback where my arguments have been conviently disregarded. I always get told how Jesus died for him and the relevant scripture, normally followed by he will pray for me.
The best cure for fundamentalist Christians is for them to take their very own Bible and read it front to back,
without focusing on the rosy parts which their good pastor points out to them in exchange for 10% of their earnings.

Cheers,
Markus



Posted on January 12, 2007 at 2:25 pm


Comment by fri (Comment ID: 134150)

Markus, I think sometimes it is just a waste of time to reply to such posts as Luis’. Yes, it is very entrenched in their brains the propaganda learnt at their churches. And no matter what one say will change their view of things. Sometimes the stronger the opposition the more they will believe.

I recall when I was a JW and I probably did the same thing, well not quite, I have always been an opened minded person. But to certain people if the WT says so, it must be so with no questions asked. And by picking a scripture from here and there one can just about prove anything with a bible.

It too annoys me when they deliberately do not answer questions and quickly want to pray for me. I would rather them do something more useful with their time.

We got to have guys like these to entertain us.

Cheers,

fri



Posted on January 12, 2007 at 3:28 pm


Comment by Luis (Comment ID: 134978)

to fri and markus, it’s very sad indeed that you once belonged to the unfortunate false sect of jehova’s witnesses, and therefore when you did find out that it was a fake religious group with a pretty much twisted doctrine, you 2 guys went out and started doing exactly what your hearts earned for, say that God doesn’t exist and that everything that God reveals in His Word is false, using much of your own human altered reasoning and following, (even if you deny it, that’s exactly what you 2 are doing) what the other people that you agree with, say. As I said many times before, it’s your choice who you want to believe and who you don’t, I’m not here to convince anyone, everything of what I say comes from the Bible, and yes, I chose to believe God. I’m really thankful that I didn’t fall for the lies of the j.w.’s, and instead of continuing attacking the Bible (yes I used to do that, who hasn’t, but thank God that He opened my eyes and let me see His Truth) So do yourselves a favor, you say it yourselves, you don’t want to respond, then don’t, I’m not obligating you to do so, but if you’re responding, then think about why you are doing it; markus you say that I disregarded your arguments? Then go ahead and read what I answered to you, what are you trying to do, make everyone believe that I just simply left and didn’t have the decency to respond to your so called “evidences”, either you have a bad monitor and the message is incomplete, need glasses, or u’r just reading what best fits you, I really have no clue, nor interested in knowing. As I said before, Jesus said it Himself “I am the Truth….(John 14:6) Many churches, religious groups, people claim to have the truth, but check out the BIG difference, Jesus IS the Truth, He is a person, not an organization, not some rules you gotta follow to gain redemption, not a magic wand to have what you want, He IS a person. Like I said before, it’s your call, you decide who you want to follow, scientists, university professors, evolutionists, yourselves, it’s your decision, I decided to follow Christ. So continue with your charade of “ok, these guys (I’ve seen your other comments on other posts as well) are nuts, they are Jesus brainwashed” and other stuff you so intelligently post, but one thing is True, and I’ve already answered it before, so if you want to understand something that you’re definetely not going to, because it can only be SPIRITUALLY discerned, than go ahead, have fun, keep posting what you want, keep trying to prove that the Word of God is just a fairy tale book, keep checking out for “contradicting” passages, as fri and markus kindly mentioned, when you use isolated verses and try to prove your point like the famous judas joke, then people get more and more confused. Yes, READ the whole Bible, but again only if you’re born again, you’ll understand the Ways of God (1Corinthians 2:9), otherwise, you’ll just be another theistic fool that even though he/she knows the Bible back and forth, and thinks that he/she knows everything about it, in the end, knows nothing (1Corinthians 2:14). It’s God who starts Salvation and it’s Him who shows Mercy on those who decide to follow Him even if they don’t deserve it. Your hearts are getting harder and harder as time passes and therefore not care about God’s Grace, so in the end don’t complain that you didn’t know nor heard (Hebrews 3:7-19) Take care you two, and again, if you think I didn’t answer like many people you’ve encountered, then read again and check, otherwise, quit lying to yourselves saying “oh, he/she is not answering, he/she is running away from my arguments” and whatnut.

Grace be with you.

Luis.

John 3:16-18
16″For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. 18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because He has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.”



Posted on January 13, 2007 at 4:06 am


Comment by Markus (Comment ID: 135727)

Luis,

Don’t you get it? I do not believe in the Bible, so it is pointless showing me scriptures. What I want from you is proof that there is a God, without using the Bible,
you cannot, so kindly do not direct any more comments to me, unless you can come up with proof. Do not tell me your hypnotic state is proof.

Markus

(Comments wont nest below this level)


Posted on January 13, 2007 at 4:28 pm


Comment by Luis (Comment ID: 135875)

I know you don’t markus, and what you’re saying about proving that God doesn’t exist without using the Bible is like playing baseball without a bat, soccer without a ball, mathematics without numbers, or asking you to demonstrate evolution without using what the scientists say, come on dude, I already said this before and will say it again, you choose who you want to believe, but then you won’t have the excuse to say that you didn’t know nor heard. And thanks elliot, peter, and young and old farts, it’s encouraging to see that other people come here with good points of views, however, not discriminating nor disregarding the other side of the story, yet wrongly made. It’s true what elliot and the other dudes say, markus, ber, fri, and company might be the same person, or different people (it doesn’t matter checking out what’s real, since this is what normally happens even with people I encounter face to face, yet they are not insulting and stuff that these “smart” dudes do) and I also said it before, they are so hard-heartened that they don’t want to hear what other people want to say, they just want to prove their atheistic point of view at all costs, it’s pretty clear to see that. So I guess I made my point, but to make it clear, I don’t feel like “ok, I won” or “whatever, these guys are nuts” kind of thing, on the contrary, it makes me sad to see how blind you people are, thus it also gives me more proof of the veracity of the Bible (Matthew 22:1-14).

Grace be with you.

Luis.



Posted on January 13, 2007 at 7:03 pm