Guest Book
Tell us what you think about our web site, or just air your opinion. We welcome your comments, opinions and suggestions.
Greetings,
Rado Vleugel
Tell us what you think about our web site, or just air your opinion. We welcome your comments, opinions and suggestions.
Greetings,
Rado Vleugel
Resurrection of Jesus
If Jesus was resurrected as an invisible spirit, like the Watchtower teaches, why did Jesus say he was going to raise his physical body from the dead (John 2:19-22)?
If Jesus, the man, ceased to exist at his death and was raised from the dead as Michael the Archangel, why did Michael deceive the apostles into believing that they were witnessing Jesus in a resurrected physical body (Luke 24:39)?
If Jesus is now living in heaven as an invisible spirit creature, like the Watchtower teaches, why did Paul write many years after the ascension of Christ that he is dwelling in heaven in a physical body (Colossians 2:9)? Note: The Greek word, somatikos, means physical, tangible body.
If Jesus is now Michael the Archangel, why does 1 Timothy 2:5 say that the mediator between God and men is the man, Christ Jesus, and not the spirit, Michael the Archangel?
Can you show me a verse in the bible that clearly says Jesus is the Archangel Michael? How can Jesus be Michael since Hebrews chapter 1 stresses the superiority of Jesus over the angels and that all the angels worship him? Why would Jehovah command that the entire angelic realm worship another angel? Note: The Watchtower bible changes the word worship, in Hebrews 1:6, to “do obeisance to”. However, see section below on the New World Translation.
The Watchtower Society
Since the Watchtower was wrong in the past about many of its teachings and the light continues to get brighter (Proverbs 4:18), how do you know that the current teachings are correct and won’t change?
Why did the Watchtower magazine (Nov 15, 1981, p. 21) say to “come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation” when Jesus never directed us to an organization for salvation but to him?
When you joined the Jehovah’s Witnesses, did you read information for and against the Watchtower so you could make an educated and well rounded decision based on both points of view?
Has anyone become a Jehovah’s Witness after reading the bible alone without the aid of Watchtower material?
If I were to join the Jehovah’s Witnesses, would it be okay for me to do research into the Watchtower’s past by reading non-Watchtower material?
Since the Watchtower was in error many times in the past, are you obligated to believe that all the current teachings are God’s truth?
False Prophecies
If Jesus’ invisible presence began in 1914, like the Watchtower teaches, why was the Watchtower teaching in 1929 that Jesus’ invisible presence began in 1874? How did they finally figure out that that teaching was false? Reference: Prophecy, 1929, p. 65.
Since the Watchtower claims to be God’s prophet (The Watchtower, April 1, 1972, p. 197) and have falsely predicted Armageddon to occur in 1914, 1918, 1925 and 1975, do you think they meet the criteria of Deuteronomy 18:20-22?
Can you show me in the bible where it says to give false prophets a second or third chance to get it right?
If the Watchtower really is Jehovah’s prophet, like they claim, can you show me anything they predicted that came to pass?
The New World Translation
Why did Hebrews 1:6 in the 1970 version of the New World Translation say, “Let all God’s angels worship him” and not “do obeisance to him” like the new versions say?
Why does the New World Translation insert the word “other” four times into Colossians chapter 1 when it isn’t in the Greek manuscripts at all? Doesn’t this change the meaning of the text?
Why does the New World Translation place the comma in Luke 23:43 in a different location than it does every other time when Jesus says, “Truly I tell you”?
Can you show me a list of Greek scholars who approve of the New World Translation’s New Testament translation?
Can you show me a list of the people who were on the New World Translation Committee along with their credentials in the ancient Biblical languages?
The 144,000
If the Watchtower’s teaching that the 144,000 were filled in 1935 is correct, can you explain how Jesus, his apostles and their immediate followers couldn’t get 144,000 converts in 1800 years, but the Watchtower got 6 million converts in 125 years?
Why does the Watchtower teach that only 144,000 people are born-again when 1 John 5:1 says that everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God?
Why is there only one judgment period from God to test the endurance and worthiness of the 144,000 before they are guaranteed of eternal life, but the other sheep have to endure through this life, the 1000 year millennium plus pass an unknown final test before they are counted worthy of eternal life? Why is salvation so much easier for the 144,000?
If Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not part of the 144,000 with a heavenly hope, why does Jesus say in Matthew 8:11 that they will be in the kingdom of heaven?
Identity of Jesus
According to Jesus in John 17:3, how many true Gods are there? Would you say that whatever is not true is false? Doesn’t the New World Translation call Jesus “a god” in John 1:1? Since there is only one true God and all others must be false, is Jesus a true God or a false god?
If Jesus was God’s Master Worker in creation, why does Jehovah say, in Isaiah 44:24, that He created all things by Himself?
If Jesus is a created being, why does he get twice as much worship, in Revelation 5:12, as Jehovah gets in Revelation 4:11?
If Jehovah created Jesus, why does John 1:3 say that all things came into existence through Jesus and apart from him not even one thing was made? Doesn’t this place Jesus outside the realm of created things?
Miscellaneous
1. If everlasting life comes by taking in knowledge (John 17:3), how long do I have to study with the Jehovah’s Witnesses to be assured that I have enough knowledge to live forever? 1 year? 5 years?
2. If we pay for our personal sins when we die, like the Watchtower teaches, how will the great crowd who survive Armageddon pay for their sins since they will never die but go right on living into the millennium?
@jason
You raise several topics that is worthy of discussion. We all at one time or another ask why and how all this. I was born into a Christ believing community. It was when I was in my 30’s that I started my study of religions. I am now 73 and I still do not have all the answers. We all must start somewhere in this discovery.
You asked the question about the Catholic religion and the practices. In the study of all the drama and dress of their leaders you will find such a vast contrast to the life and example of Christ. That is so evident in the teachings of the bible. I climbed the side of a mountain in Greece to visit a monastery where a group of monks lived and died away from all civilization. What purpose did that serve? Any group who lives to kill and destroy to serve a higher goal baffles me too.
Many people believe that when we die there is nothing beyond that departure. If that is what they are comfortable with then they have made a choice. I am not comfortable with that and my pursuit is to prepare for what is beyond this life. My rule book is the bible and it works for me. I do not embrace the JW rules and they do not allow freedom of thought. I will not be contained in my journey by any group who tells me that I must do what that group tells me.
I wish you well and do hope that you start a study of religion and if you believe in a supreme being, ask for divine guidance. Cornelius did in the NT and his prayers were answered.
I must say this is an interesting discussion! I think the most important thing is to believe in yourself and be good to yourself and others.
Instead of trying to make a point from a book that is centuries old and we even don’t know if it’s the whole truth, i mean come on … There are so many relgions on earth, why would be the christian religion be the only wright one?? It seems that most so called religions are only trying to read the chapters in the bible that they like and say that the passages they don’t like are “mistranslated chapters” …
Instead of preaching the word, telling us to help our neighbour, telling us what’s good and wright like the vatican and so many other important religious figures do. I would like to see them sell all their golden and silver decorations in their churches and with this money help the poor people in the world. I mean talk about hypocrisy, would God or Jesus agree with this practice?
Just my 2 cents…
Markus,
Problem is that we both still are at odds to the facts we wish others to believe. You are unable to produce solid proof of your belief. Neither can I except for the fact that I look around me and know that all this exists by some act or event. Through faith I believe that God is the creator. I am comfortable with where I am and obviously you are happy in your belief. All this gives me a reason for living and hope for the next chapter when I am no longer here. There is not one thing that is missing in my life that makes me have any regrets. Don’t be angry for my hopes for you. At least you have learned a new word. There is a bit of regret that I don’t have a second language as you have. So I have to make an effort to acquaint myself to a smidgen of the language of the country I visit.@Markus
Jones
After looking up what the word ‘epiphany’ means. I already had one of these quite a few years ago. This was when I realized we are alone, we have no big brother watching and judging our thoughts and even our dreams.
I must add that this particulart epiphany I had, also brought with it a great sense of relief.
Cheers,
Markus
Stan; Please don’t take lightly the idea that there are circumstances that are so awesome and unexplainable that one will know that it is all from God. In Acts 8 it was not just a coincidence that Phillip and the Ethiopian met. The Ethiopian was a student of the scriptures and God furnished the answer to questions that he had. In Acts 10 again there is an occurrence with Cornelius. If God is who he says He is and promises unbelievable things then we accept all of what He says or we cannot share in the promises that He makes. If He can do all these things then why can we not accept that He is able to show us the path we should be on? How much faith do we have? @Stan
Markus my friend: I point my finger at those who lie and twist the truth. You have been helpful to me in that regard when it comes to exposing the JWs. The others I pray are searching and finding what God wants of them. I keep on hoping that you will have an epiphany. And you are probably rolling your eyes and asking yourself if that kind of miracle is possible.@Markus
Stan: It can be overwhelming if you are looking at what is going on in the religions community and the supermarket of beliefs that you can pick and choose from. If you have faith and want to know which way to turn then you will be better served if you pray and study. You must believe in the ability of the Holy Spirit to guide you in the direction that you must go. Divine providence works in the lives of those who are looking for a direction. You have the choice or responsibility to find the way regardless of all the chaos around you. You are not left to pick a religion because but because of your faith and through much prayer and study you will find others who are working toward that goal. Read Heb. ll. I encourage you to study the whole book of Hebrews. Don’t be afraid of asking for the Holy Spirit to guide you into all truth. It does not come like a bolt of lightning. Christian growth is not an over night miracle.
I have many friends who are in different churches. I just went to Israel with a plane full of Baptists. I don’t know where they are in their spiritual growth. I must accept that what is in their hearts is known only to God and He is the final authority in the matter. I hope my comments will give you some insight into how I have carved my path to God and how I keep looking for what He wants me to do.
Now I have to talk to Markus.
@Jones
Not sure what I should be enjoying in this instance, perhaps it is over my head.
What I do find interesting and rather amusing though is that the thousands of we are right you are wrong Christians all pointing a crooked finger at each other.
Cheers,
Markus
It does not take away from the fact that you too read from the bible what you see fit. Yes off course, you interpret the bible the way it should. Problem is, they all say that.
Have you any idea how many Christian religions there are on this insignificant planet of ours? Depending on whom to believe, the number is somewhere between 15,000 and 40,000. But let us for argument say it is “only” 15,000. This gives us 15,000 different explanations, of which at best only one can be the authoritatively correct one.
What are the odds that you are that one?
Best wishes, Stan.
Stan; I am under the impression that the Bible speaks pretty clearly. We can believe what it says or we don’t. If we study we can pretty much make a distinction as to what it says. It is when we read into the wording and create laws that do not exist and the JWs do a pretty good job of that. I have found it amusing that they have created so much literature about the cross verses the stake when in reality what really matters is the fact that Jesus died and rose again on the third day. That is the real meat of the matter. Their kids are are not allowed to play sports in school or act in the school play. Mom cannot bake a birthday cake and is not allowed to enjoy a beautiful Mother’s Day card to let her know that she is appreciated. And being doomed because one cannot have a blood transfusion because they find that in the bible. Oh! the laws they have created for themselves. It aint in my bible ’cause I looked.@Stan
I agree with you Jones, these JWs explain the bible as they see fit.
But is that not what you do also?
Best wishes, Stan.
Jay, I feel sorry for you. I beg of anyone who has been following this exchange, please study the bible and especially the book Of Acts. Peter tells it like it is and explains that the Gospel includes Jesus being raised from the dead. I let someone borrow my copy of the WT bible so at this time I am unable to compare to the King James or the NIV to see just how they have changed the wording. I am afraid that Jay is forever lost to the JWs but that won’t keep me from making an effort to show the dishonesty of what they preach. I leave the debate in your hands.
Markus, I bet you are loving this. Right?a href=”#comment-29075″>@Jay
Jesus commissioned his genuine followers to provide this help. Before his ascension to heaven, Jesus commanded: “Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, . . . teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.” (Matthew 28:19, 20) Christians’ primary work involves teaching, which includes explaining how Bible principles can be applied in everyday life. True Christians help others to understand the Bible.
Not long after Jesus gave his followers that commission, a fascinating incident occurred. The Bible tells of a royal official from Ethiopia who was reading a portion of Isaiah’s prophecy. He encountered a passage that left him stumped. According to the Bible record, the confusing verses read: “As a sheep he was brought to the slaughter, and as a lamb that is voiceless before its shearer, so he does not open his mouth. During his humiliation the judgment was taken away from him. Who will tell the details of his generation? Because his life is taken away from the earth.”—Acts 8:32, 33; Isaiah 53:7, 8.
@Jones
Jay, Don’t change the subject to something else before we are finished with the questions I asked you. We can easily get into dissecting the prayer He taught his disciples later if you wish. I don’t wonder at all about anything within that prayer. I know and understand that and I can help you understand that too and you won’t have to wonder anymore.
Did you read the book of Acts of the Apostles? Do you actually study your bible independently of the kingdom hall teachers? Are you allowed to read the actual scriptures and spend hours in healthy discussion of those scriptures without a study guide telling you what someone else has decided is what you must believe?@Jay
Have you ever wondered why Jesus put the ‘hallowing,’ or sanctifying, of God’s name first in this prayer? Afterward, he mentioned other things such as the coming of God’s Kingdom, God’s will being done on earth and our sins being forgiven. The fulfillment of these other requests will ultimately mean lasting peace on earth and everlasting life for mankind. Can you think of anything more important than that? Nevertheless, Jesus told us to pray first of all for the sanctification of God’s name.@Jones
Thank you Jay. Now I ask you if this is the same Gospel that was preached to the first people who heard? Who made the determination that these people were saved? Please give me scriptural proof of all the rules and regulations you have listed in your answer. If Jesus preached that His laws would be in our hearts then I just cannot understand if the similarity of a birthday cake for my son is a pagan practice when my heart belongs to Jesus and my thoughts and motives are pure. That is putting someone else in charge of making a determination that I am committing a sin. The very logo of the Watchtower is a medieval tower. What is to keep me from thinking that it looks like the tower of Babel? Now one should not have anything that remotely resembles a pagan icon or I am in big trouble.
Jay, I live in a world where all kinds of things are practiced and preached. If I cannot find bible proof of that act being a sin, then I cannot embrace it.@Jay
You must show faith in God and in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Adhere to the practices, requirements, commandments, laws, and sacraments of the faith. “Witnessing” and active sharing of their faith with others is fundamental. Avoid behaviors that God dislikes, including celebration of birthdays and holidays originating from false religions.
Much suffering is caused by the inheritance of mortality from Adam and Eve, which includes vulnerability to illness and disease. Also, those who choose to succumb to Satan’s temptations may suffer self-inflicted damage to their health. Satan and his demons cause great misery. God has allowed the situation to continue so that mankind can discover that God’s rule is better than independent human-rule. He has allowed Satan to cause suffering to challenge Satan’s claim that God’s creation, humans, would turn from and curse God under pressure.
@Jones
Sorry, Dianne, for the misspelling of your name earlier. This does give me the opportunity to point out one more thing, though, concerning Jay’s interpretation of John 2:19. You see, Scripture must always be viewed within the context it is written. If you read on in the second chapter of John, the context is provided.
vs. 19 “Jesus answered and said to them, ‘Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.’ 20 Then the Jews said, ‘It has taken forty-six years to build this temple and will you raise it up in three days?’ 21 But he was speaking of the temple of his body. 22 Therefore, WHEN HE HAD RISEN FROM THE DEAD, his disciples remembered that he had said this to them; and they believed the Scriptures and the word which Jesus had said.
Clearly, the Scriptures the disciples reflected upon and believed were related to the resurrection of the Christ, since it was that resurrection which brought to them a recollection of that promise, which they, then, believed, confirming for them all the more that Jesus was the Messiah, since it was his words which they also recalled and believed. Understand that the hope of a resurrection was a long standing hope of the ancient Hebrews (this is why the arguements with the Sadducees – who didn’t believe in a resurrection of the dead – are so significant in the Gospels) and Jesus, as Messiah, was the first fruits of this. Though there are numerous verses related to the body of Christ, that is, the church, this is not one of them. It is this type of minipulation of the Scriptures that the JW’s do that can serve as a prime example of their misunderstandings. Their blatant sense of exclusivity should be enough for you to stay away from them. True believers are those who have a relationship with the Father through the Son, from and for any who would call upon His name, not designated by denominational affiliation.
Oh, one more for everone.
http://www.biblicaltruthseekers.co.uk
Here, you can find at least 23 articles that astutely explain flaws in Jehovah’s witnesses theology.
To: Diane Laverick
Diane, I do hope you are keeping track on all said here, of the debate that never took place. Jay(and other Jehovah’s Witnesses)are well aware that “most people do not read the Bible at all,” as he stated (April 29, 5:31), because these are the individuals the JW’s prey upon. When they knock at your door, they have a complete program they are sent and set to impliment, seeking to draw out those who know little of Biblical truth, painting a Norman Rockwell version of themselves, to which anyone would desire, but it’s not real. I’ve encountered several JW’s at my doorsteps, to which I invited them in and had regular meetings with. I did the Biblical research in relation to the information that was given me. There are several, intrical and immeasurably important theological issues which they are missing the point of through misinterpretation of the Scriptures. Should Jay refuse the debate offered, with myself (as he previously refused to engage Jones), it only states the unwillingness he has to defend the undefendable, when confronted with theologically sound, Biblically based interpretation. He responded to you so quickly and positively because, I would gather, you do not have a great deal of Biblical background. You were viewed as fodder to be gathered. I am concerned about your relationship with the living God. I would suggest a few websites for you that you can learn about the reality of the body of Christ, theological views that run consistent with the Shema of Deuteronomy 6:4, that there is only one God (not in three persons), gain what is lacking so desperately in the modern Christian world, that is, an understanding of the uniquely significant position of the Christ (that both no 1st century Hebrew would have expected the Messiah to be of the form of deity and that he was a unique man, Son of God), that our hope in salvation is not heaven, but a hope of the resurrection of the just. Here you go. I would suggest you find a fellowship from one of these sources and get fed the world of God in spirit and in truth, where you will be an accepted and valued member of the church which seeks to aid you in your walk with the living God, not just a feather in another JW’s cap.
http://www.graceministryinternational.org
http://www.21stcr.org
restorationfellowship.org
There are others I would be glad to share with you, should you desire.
God bless you and may the Father shed His infinite love upon your entire being.
Since this confrontation is going basically nowhere, I’ll throw in. O.K. Jay, I was a trinitarian for 45 years, grew up Catholic, even studied for the Catholic priesthood. I’ve searched the Scriptures for years, prayed not to be deceived and then the Father showed me something amazing just this last December. It’s about context and perspective. If one is going to understand the Messiah they proclaim to be had by and represent, you must understand him from a 1st century, Jewish perspective or all of our modern cultural understandings will taint our perspective concerning who it is we should know. I no longer believe an individual dies and goes to heaven or hell, the hope for the righteous is rooted in the hope of the resurrection. There are other theological points the Father has led me to (I no longer accept the trinitarian view) as He continues to cleanse my mind with His word, as I continue to be conformed into the image of Christ. You can’t say I would refuse to learn, but as I do learn there are definitely issues related to Jehovah’s Witnesses theology that I’ve been shown run inconsistent with what the Word of God actually says, like the Jesus resurrected as only spirit issue, clearly contradicted by Luke 24:39, as I pointed out earlier. I am not, as you say, closed minded…so pick any topic. I’ll debate it with you. This is, of course, in hope, no offense to Jones. In many respects, it’s myself seeking, as Jones is, if you will defend your theological perspective, rather than brushing off any who may have revelation that differs. Refuse this offer and for all practical purposes you are as you have judged. Pick a topic, state your theological perspective and await a rebuttal.
Jay: I asked you to explain 2 questions that I asked. You cannot or will not even make an attempt to do so. What happened to your great knowledge and understanding that I could never measure up to because I don’t have the ability to understand? You see it is like this. I am not reading from those two little canned books called “Knowledge That Leads to Everlasting Life” or “Reasoning From The Scriptures” that has been prepared for you and fed to you and you ate it like a loyal subject that you are. Sad thing is, you have a brain that God gave you and you choose to let someone else do the thinking for you.
I challenge you to read the book of Acts of the Apostles. You look at example after example of conversions in that one book and compare them to what you poor people are subjected to. Compare what was preached and taught then to what you are forced to obey. Jesus said his yoke is easy. He also said that he would write his laws on our hearts. Your group has yoked you poor people with laws and rules that blows my mind. And you use such excuses not to show me where I am wrong. Sad, sad.@Jay
It seems you have already made up your mind on how you explain scripture, and your mind is closed to. I meet many like you on my travels, not able to open up to new ideas. All I can say is; go back to the scriptures and read. Also, here is a source of good information: http://www.watchtower.org/ There is hope for everyone.
@Jones
Jay, you asked me what I think. You did not ask me what I believe. Then you attack. You cannot and will not give me an answer because you cannot use the bible as it is to defend your “truth” and you know it. John 14:6 is ignored by the JWs so that pretty much kills any honest dialogue we may have. You would have to accept that scripture to call yourselves “Christians” and you do not believe so that keeps you silent rather than answer my questions. You have no scriptural answers. A christian is in Christ and belongs to Christ and is a follower of Christ. You do not admit that you are in Christ or that you belong to Christ or that you are a follower of Christ. You do not believe that Jesus was raised from the dead even though it is stated so in the scriptures. You do diligently go from door to door to spread your “gospel” that is in no way like what was preached in the scriptures. If you were to follow the other examples in the book of Acts of the Apostles as closely as you do the door knocking, you would understand how to become a Christian and who determines who is saved. What I believe was written long before your religion was established. @Jay
Jay, I am waiting for you to answer my questions. You accuse me of being wrong but yet you offer me no reason to believe your religion. Please give me scriptural answers to my questions. This is your golden opportunity to do so. My belief is of no interest to you but yours is to me. When you answer my questions then I will share with you just how sure I am of what I believe. Please don’t be shy. If you keep on avoiding answering my questions, maybe you aren’t able to do so. You don’t want all the people reading this forum to believe you can’t give me a simple answer. I am waiting. You say you have the truth. If you do then share it. I am waiting. I am waiting. I am waiting. @Jay
Jay, I know what I think. You are the one who told Dianne that all aspects of your religion are most fruitful and rewarding. It is above all our deep understanding of the scriptural foreboding that drives us. We are God’s chosen people and it is our mission to proselytise God’s truth.
It is your opportunity to share that deep understanding and proselytise me with God’s truth. I want to know how to become a christian and who makes that determination that the person has become a christian. Your deep understanding of the scriptures should make it easy to share. I am waiting for your words of great wisdom and knowledge of the scriptures to guide me. Please don’t disappoint me. The answers to my questions surely is somewhere in the scriptures.
Well, what do you think?@Jones
Ok Jay: According to the scriptures how does one become a Christian and who makes that determination that the person has become a christian?@Jay
This was your idea, so you pick the subject.
Jay, I am ready to start this exchange and if and when you choose the subject then we can get started. Just let me know book, chapter and verses that you use to make your case. I will respond.@Jay
The final standard must be what the word of God actually says, not some twisted interpretation. This must include contextual considerations and consistencies with the entirety of Scripture, that is, taking into consideration if the interpretation is consistent with other areas of Scripture, beyond what and where something is interpreted in a given passage. Time to break out the Hebrew and Greek.
I suggest you begin with something simple, like what was Jesus crucified on?
Lets have it then.
Jay, I’ll defend what the bible says any day against anything you toss my way. I have no desire to win Dianne to my sect. I don’t care what group she gets involved with as long as it follows what the scriptures teach. Debate me and give her an opportunity to examine both views. Are you game? We can start with any subject you suggest. I will stick strictly to what is written in the scriptures and taking any subject using either the King James or New International Version of the bible. I cannot use the WT version as it is written by JWs only. We have an audience in this forum and I am sure that if I misquote anything there will be many who will correct me. Are you game? I am weary of people who will take advantage of anyone who has never had a clear view of how to study the bible. I was there at one time and it took many years to dig and make sense of and how to approach study. If you are such a scholar then it should not be such a stretch to teach Dianne how to understand and know what she is reading.@Jay
Dianne, don’t listen to these radical stooges, they are merely trying to win you over to join their sect. Stay with the one and only true religion. Only we know how to interpret the Scriptures correctly.
Add Luke 24:39 to Jones’ points countering the Jehovah’s Witnesses idea that Jesus only was raised in spirit:
(Jesus speaking after being raised from the dead) “Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Handle me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”