WTS Occult Association
Did the WTS avoid spiritism, necromancy, and astrology? Read the article.
B. J. Kotwall
The Watchtower Society (WTS) advises against association with the occult, including spiritism, astrology, necromancy, mysticism and other similar beliefs and practices condemned in the Bible. (Deuteronomy 18:9-11)
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For example:
The Flood forced the disobedient angels to dematerialize, and, now separated from Jehovah’s holy organization, they became an invisible demonic organization under Satan’s domination. (Ephesians 6:12) In order to control mankind, they use spiritism, necromancy, astrology and other occult devices. Although unable to take on human form again, they often possess humans, animals and inanimate things such as fetishes. |
Let’s examine whether the WTS has followed its own advice and avoided spiritism, necromancy, and astrology.
N e c r o m a n c y
Necromancy refers to divination through alleged communication with the dead.
After Charles Russell the first president of WTS died in 1916 the following was said about him keeping contact with the WTS:
This verse (Revelation 8:3) shows that, though Pastor Russell has passed beyond the veil, he is still managing every feature of the harvest work…We hold that he supervises, by the Lord’s arrangement, the work yet to be done.
The Finished Mystery 1917 pp. 144, 256
Hence our dear Pastor, now in glory, is without doubt, manifesting a keen interest in the harvest work, and is permitted by the Lord to exercise some strong influence thereupon.
Watch Tower 1917, November 1 p. 6161 [ WTS’s reprints]
The second president of the WTS Joseph Rutherford under whose aegis the above two statements were made, later contradicted them:
No one of the temple company would be so foolish as to conclude that some brother (or brethren) at one time amongst them, and who has died and gone to heaven, is now instructing the saints on earth and directing them as to their work.
Jehovah 1934 p. 191
However, in a complete flip-flop the WTS in 1989 reverted back to their necromantic belief:
It is fitting, then, that one of the 24 elders, representing anointed ones already in heaven, should stir John’s thinking…(Revelation 7:13, 14a) Yes, that elder could locate the answer and give it to John. This suggests that resurrected ones of the 24-elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today.
Revelation – Its Grand climax At Hand! 1989 p. 125
S p i r i t i s m
Charles Russell believed that “A truth presented by Satan himself is just as true as a truth stated by God…Accept truth wherever you find it, no matter what it contradicts.” (Zion’s Watch Tower 1879 July pp. 8-9) In similar vein the WTS of today also uses any sources at their disposal to confirm their “truth”, notwithstanding that Russell’s statement is condemned in the Bible! (John 8:44)
Although rejecting spiritism the WTS repeatedly used the writings, of a known spiritist Johannes Greber, as a scholarly support for their beliefs. The WTS was aware of Greber’s spiritistic connections from 1955 but continued to use his works until 1987 (particularly to support their incorrect translation of John 1:1) while at the same time denying that they were aware of Greber’s spiritistic practices! (Investigator No. 24, May 1992.) After being exposed for the use of Greber’s works the WTS apparently stopped using him.
WTS has however found another spirit medium in one John S. Thompson to support their John 1:1 translation! He is listed as an authority in the WTS’s Kingdom Interlinear Translation 1985 p. 1139-1140. Research in Thompson’s book, The Monotessaron, or The Gospel History, According to the Four Evangelists (1829) shows that his inspiration and direction came from the spirit world!
D e m o n s
The WTS has always had a morbid fascination with the subjects of demons and Jehovah’s Witnesses (JW) have developed tremendous fear of demons and Satan. Russell used to write about spirit manifestations. (eg. Zion’s Watch Tower 1907 October 1 p. 4069 WTS reprints)
Recent Watchtower publications also have warnings and instructions on how to deal with demons and demonized objects, shunning omens and “voices”, rejecting modern “demonized” music, resisting wicked spirits etc. (The Watchtower 1974 June 1 p.328; 1983 October 15 pp. 11-15; 1963 March 15 pp. 186-190)
Jerry Bergman in his book Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Problem of Mental Health (1992) relates case histories showing how the WTS is seriously demon-oriented.
There have been numerous cases where a JW was perceived by the WTS elders to be demon-possessed. The elders then frequently take charge of the unfortunate situation and enter the house of the “possessed” JW and systematically start to destroy by burning whatever objects which they think are devil-related! This Shamanistic practice would result in the destruction of crosses, rosaries, pictures, books, heirlooms and even items like blankets, furniture and clothing if acquired from someone or a body which is considered by the elders to be in league with Satan!
Havor Montague in his article The Pessimistic Sect’s Influence on Mental Health: The case of Jehovah’s Witnesses states that he “has worked with many cases where the suggestion of “demon influence” has been the factor that has caused the neurotic witness to become a complete psychotic.” (p. 144)
A s t r o l o g y
WTS regularly condemns astrology and star worship as pagan. (Awake! 1994 July 8 pp. 3-7)
But, for 62 years (1891-1953) the WTS taught that God resided on star Alcyone, which was the eternal throne of God, and from there he governed the universe. Also the Great Pyramid, of Egypt, which was also considered by the WTS as God’s Stone Witness, provided additional proof of the location God’s throne on the star Alcyone. (Studies in the Scriptures Volume 3 1891 pp. 313-369; Reconciliation 1928 p. 14) At the WTS’s burial lots in near Pittsburgh City a large pyramid shaped monument is erected near Russell’s grave, seven feet high and nine feet across with the Knight Templar logo atop the pyramid.
Astrology and planetary positions were used to support the WTS’s predictions of the “long promised era” to start by 1914. (The Watchtower 1903 May 1 p. 3184 WTS reprints)
The three Magis, who came to visit the new born Jesus, are considered by the WTS as pagans because they came “from eastern parts” which was the then centre of occult worship and because they depended on astrology (a star) to guide them! (The Watchtower 1983 October 15 pp. 11-15)
For more details regarding WTS astrology connection refer Investigator No. 41, March 1995.
W T S a n d t h e F r e e m a s o n s
Fritz Springmeier in his book The Watchtower and the Masons presents a convincing insight in WTS’s early connection with the occultic Freemasons.
The following are a few of the parallels between the two organizations presented by Springmeier.
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Jehovah is the most important word being the basis of their dogma, and the name of their God.
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Both use the Masonic term “Great Architect”
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Both believe God yielded power to a lesser god.
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Both believe in a future life for all mankind, a new Golden Age.
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Both emphasize continuing revelation.
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Both see an exclusiveness to truth.
Russell used the Egyptian Trinity Winged Sun-Disk on his books and tracts. This use of the Sun-Disk is similar to 33 degree Masonic Knights Templar logo. (Springmeier p. 111-115)
The Winged Sun Disc from Egyptian mythology
which appeared on early JW literature
C o m m u n i c a t i o n w i t h A n g e l s
Joseph Rutherford the second president of the WTS believed his spiritual enlightenment came from angels because the Holy Spirit had ceased functioning since 1918. The angels channeled information into his mind from God residing on the star Alcyone. (Preservation 1932 pp.51; 201-203; Watchtower 1931 November 1 p. 327; The Watchtower 1934 April 1 p. 105)
Finally a quote from The Occult (Colin Wilson 1979):
The artist…sees clearly that the ‘solution’ to the curious pointlessness of most human existence is not another life but the occasional moments of ecstatic intensity and control when this universe seems infinitely interesting and the idea of eternal life, in this universe, entirely delightful. This is an idea that can be found in Russian mysticism – in Fedorov, Dostoevsky, Rozanov – that eternal life means life on this earth, not in another world. The Jehovah’s Witnesses oddly enough hold a similar doctrine: that after the Day of Judgment, the earth will turn into Paradise. (p. 762) (Italics in bold added)
I think it is very easy for accusation against – and defence of – religious doctrine to become a philosophy, with no settlement and long-lasting strife for those who feel agrieved. The debate on aleviating climate change is suffering under the same circumstances.
The most beautiful and assuring science is that which is “intuitive” – a recognition of the truth of a situation not because of data but for a recognition of the flows and forces at work. Infact many branches of science have begun without data but through that clearer understanding.
In the same way, when beliefs seem wrong – like a meal whose gravy tastes right and adds flavour, but cannot hide the poor quality of the food it is designed to disguise – then it doesn’t need analysys. It just needs discarding, it is unpallatable and there is no need to consider it anymore. The food our Heavenly Father gives is not complicated, has no need for a dressing, and brings no contentions to the heart.
@george
I was told by JWs that YHWH meant, ‘I am what I prove to be’
Nobody knows the Holy Name of God. All that we know is YHWH which comes from The Old Testament, Exodus 3:14 “I am that I am”. The Rabi of the Temple from Jerusalem knew the Holy Name and he pronounced in The Holy of Holies, The Holy Name of God, on Yom Kippur. After the deportation in Babylon, even the Jew lost this Name. This was on 6th century B.C.
When ever a scripture becomes too contraversial to WJ it’s changed. Watchtower is noted for this and refered to as “cut and paste”. How can any free thinking person think that this is acceptable. You can’t change scripture. Too many inconsitancies with this religion. Please stop refering yourselves as Christians…you are not by any streach of the imagination. I pray for each and everyone of you, for God created all in His image and likeness and He loves ALL of His creation. For the Watchtower to say only WJ will be with God at the end of time is a sin and for you to think that He only loves WJ’s. May God forgive all of you.
Is it not interesting that the verse, (Ephesians 6:12) Has NOTHING TO SAY regarding the following quoted paragraph….. Look it up in a better translation and you see clearly what the auther was saying. Part of the paragraph may be true (the last half) But the First half is COMPLETELY FALSE. The fallen angels with the devil their leader came to this earth after being thrown out of heaven BEFORE man was tempted in the garden. Certainly not in AD 1917. !!! Several other verses can be used to prove this… Somebody has some pretty strange ideas…. Did the devil and his angels not cause the men before the flood to Sin? Was this not why the flood came upon the earth? To destroy the evil people living before the flood? THAT IS WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS !
“”The Flood forced the disobedient angels to dematerialize, and, now separated from Jehovah’s holy organization, they became an invisible demonic organization under Satan’s domination. (Ephesians 6:12) In order to control mankind, they use spiritism, necromancy, astrology and other occult devices. Although unable to take on human form again, they often possess humans, animals and inanimate things such as fetishes.”" WTS 1984
@Uncertain
Sister, I am sorry you have such a sad life, you should not allow your husband to just get what he wants. Don’t give him your money for trips, tell him that he is the husband and it is his responcebility to pay the home expences. Yes tell him you love him but he must help the family. Please do not feel that the watchtower has the only way to learn the light. Study for your self, learn from the Bible the many promises Jesus has made to us so we can be sons and daughters of His Father. Many of us now only have the Bible, as our family has abandoned so many of us, YHWH has promised he would be with us to the very end, and he would honour even a small faith “as a mustard seed” PLease be of good courage, the end is coming soon and Christ will be sitting at the right hand of his father to receive us into Heaven. Please read John 3:16 I will keep you in my prayers. Charles
@former jw
thats a very good question
I find your connection with freemasonry a little weak. If you replaces Jhvh with Jesus, or Isis, or any other God you could pose the same arguement. You have to have stronger evidence than that.
Where ,where ,where is a birthday condemned in the bible ? Because John the Baptist had his cut off was demonic ,I agree ,but at birthday parties people celebrate the simple turning of a year older,not Herodias ?
Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues.
Her, is Babylon the Great, in the early times, the empire where many other false gods and false teachings flourished, symbolizes the Empire of false religion today. How would one get out of her if not at first a part of her?
Jehovah’s witnesses WERE a part of Babylon the Great but heeded God’s advice to get out of her…Those were when the changes came in….
I may not be too sure about this, maybe other JWs dont know, that yes, early JWs did celebrate birthdays…it was when they left Babylon the Great when the enlightenment came in…Learning and God’s enlightenment is continous…it still is until today….one by one God reveals his purposes to us…
The statement is made:
[[Charles Russell believed that "A truth presented by Satan himself is just as true as a truth stated by God; Accept truth wherever you find it, no matter what it contradicts." (Zion's Watch Tower 1879 July pp. 8-9)]]
The implication is left that Russell was advocating spritism in this; however, this is not so. In the context, Russell was discussing the arguments being made by evolutionists, agnostics, atheists, etc. He was not advocating getting involved in contacting demons to learn truth.
The demons however can speak the truth, although they often do so to promote a lie. Evolutionist will often present some truth, but they will bend and shape it to fit their philosophy. Russell was telling us that we should simply ignore the truth these evolutionists, agnostics, atheists, etc. (whom he believed to be influenced by Satan and the demons) might present simply because of the source.
When the demons called Jesus “Son of God” (Matthew 8:29; Mark 3:11), are we to reckon their statement to be a lie simply because it was made by demons?
In service of Jesus,
Ronald
Instead of trying to answer the question myself, I will direct your attention to http://www.sixscreensofthewatchtower.com and let them answer it. The answer will be on Screen 3. Complete with scans of photos of Russell’s gravestone, scans of actual articles out of the Watchtower magazines of that era, and comparisons of scripture with the reality, this site will give you in-context answers that will shock you. If you truly believe that Jehovah’s Witnesses really did originate with God, you had better be ready to crap your pants when you read it–you just might.
Well my past experience growing up as a JW and
attending local KINGDOMHALL gave a wake up
call as to the ‘negative’ energy that resides at a
Kingdomhall- Yes they sang praises to YHWH used
pagan latin derived sacred name JOVE (Jehovah);
elders constantaly prepared ‘talks’ on the evils of
the world and the ‘devil’ , but gess what was lurking
at the Watchtower door!
>>I have a VERY SERIOUS QUESTION,
If the truth is the truth, then how can it be changed?
Hi Friends.
I am writing to request for a copy of the Watchtower of May, 1995. If you could spare me a copy of that, I will be very happy. Thanks, May GOD Almigty bless.
My addressis:
4142 Bridgewater Pkwy #102
Stow, Ohio 44224
“The Flood forced the disobedient angels to dematerialize, and, now separated from Jehovah’s holy organization, they became an invisible demonic organization under Satan’s domination. (Ephesians 6:12) In order to control mankind, they use spiritism, necromancy, astrology and other occult devices. Although unable to take on human form again, they often possess humans, animals and inanimate things such as fetishes.
The Watchtower 1984 March 15, p. 28-29″
This qoute used at the top of this article is not at this location in this publication. This needs to be changed if this was a typo…
check out 1 john 5:7 in the authorised bible and compare it to EVERY other bible.
There is an addition in there known as Comma Johanneum
To All JW’s and Your Constantly Changing Doctrine
Are you calling God a liar? Doesn’t God know all? Isn’t God perfect? Doesn’t God speak the truth?
Do you think God has changed his mind as the WBTS has led you to believe? I don’t believe God changes his mind, what do you think?
Since the WBTS proclaims that God only speaks through them, and the poor lost lambs that follow this organization believe whatever the organization says than I can only conclude that you are calling God a liar and imperfect!
THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH CANNOT BE CHANGED.
You poor lost lambs might try reading everything that the WBTS has published, every single word, every single line, every single paragraph, every single page, instead of just your assigned reading. You will learn so much more than the WBTS wants you to know.
The only reading that you should need is the Bible. How many different ways can you translate the Bible into so many, many, many different books and so many, many, many different stories?
Here’s an excerpt from one of the WBTS’ books “CREATION” published 1927, page 117:
“In the year 1611 A.D. what is commonly known as the Authorized Version was produced. It is otherwise known as the King James Version,….
Doubtless there has never been a more masterful and perfect English publication than the Authorized Version of the Bible. It is more generally used than any other Bible or version of the Bible in existence.”
Also, did you know that “New World”, “Golden Age” and Millennial Dawn” are used in Satanic Cults? Check the Internet.
God speaks to everyone, all you have to do is listen!
May God have mercy upon your lost souls.
Hello, let me first say I understand your plight and it is most unfortunate & horrible. When I was involved in this religion, I saw much of the same thing. The elders & others are not qualified to help with your domestic issues, you should seek a marriage counsellor. More than likely the bum (sorry for the term) you have for a husband will somehow realize you are for real, however if he does not it may be time to move on.
In your efforts to work so hard to attain God’s and/or the WTS favor, have you given any thought to whether this religion is truly the way? After more than 16 years being involved with it heavily, I used to be zealous and defended the faith all the way, however the lack of love, caring and other stupidity was building into a bomb inside me waiting to blow. The fact that I found it hard to find genuine caring people, not those paying lip service to the concept, started to make me think this religion has many problems.
After drifting off for a while, the JW’s started coming around trying to get me to come back. This turned into accusatory conversations with elders who were using conjecture & BS (you know someone apparently saw me do something wrong or whatever). Wanting me to meet with them at the KH, etc., I said no way, would be happy to talk to them, however I don’t sell out those I used to be with in the faith, like so many were apparently doing with me. They were merely trying to look good to the KH, these people are genuine friends.
Instead I did some soul searching for a while & realized that I did not really know this religion’s inner-workings the way that I should if I am to devote my life to it. It started when I had a conversation with a co-worker & found it tough trying to explain the WTS beginnings. I did some research & was shocked to find some of the things that we as JW’s were & are not told. Like so many other JW’s, my first instinct was to deny & defend the org., however after a while I could not refute the cool hard reality/evidence.
Years later & no longer involved during that time period, I stumbled across a very favorable book review of Raymond Franz’s book “Crisis of Conscience”, I acquired it & read the whole thing within 2 nights. It was a real eye-opener and his approach is loving, caring & understanding. It shows the inner-workings of the WTS & the religion, and if you have not read it, I strongly encourage you to do so (you can find it at Amazon.com). He verifies & shows clearly with evidence all of the untold mysteries of the WTS & it’s operations (he was in the governing body). His second book is excellent & goes into more detail.
Going back to your story, I am sorry if I sound selfish here. There were men & women in the org. that were lazy & treated their spouses like garbage when I was involved. They would be a wonderful person at the KH, yet they were a poisonous snake at home. This type of hypocrisy is rampant throughout the religion, as many will have different ways of dealing with the constant pressure from the WTS to achieve more. Remember, the concept of many cult-like religions is to make their followers believe they are never doing enough.
This leads me to my final thought just for you. I sincerely hope that you will take some time, whatever you need to evaluate & soul search where you are going. You seem to have spent a lot of your life making others happy, like the org., the husbands, family, etc. It’s time for you now, God will understand, as he wants all his children to be happy. Do not neglect your child, however stop worrying about the organization or anyone seeking to give you ancient outdated advice on how to handle your problems. Please take the time to think everything through, try to be more self-sufficient & depend on God, not looking to depend or rely upon other JW’s. However, to be more self-sufficient, you need to recognize when to act, setting a course for you that will ensure you & your child’s sanity.
I wish you the best in your travels and may God be with you.
James
Hi Newscruzer1
I am glad you came through the surgery and I truly understand that you are perplexed as to what to believe anymore. I feel the same way. I became a witness through my mother. I tried hard and started regular pioneering at 20. But due to very hard financial times and battling, I ended up going cold. Then disfellowshiped when I met my ‘wordly husband” as I slept with him prior to marriage. Later on I was reinstated. My husband proved to be lazy and I ended up supporting him for quite a few years until I had enough. I then had an affair and was publicly reproved. Matters didn’t improve in my marriage and I once again grew cold in the Truth. I divorced my husband and decided that it was too difficult to remain a JW. I wasn’t good enough. I always wanted to do what was right but somehow couldn’t get it right. So for quite a few years a stayed a non-JW. I dated Non-JW’s and led a non-JW life. But then I decided that the “end was close” and my daughter needed the Truth, so I came back. I went to a congregation and spoke to the elders and had a committee case and was publicly reproved for my last few years of living a not so moral life. I really have tried hard the last year. Going to all the meetings, doing my best to teach my daughter, field service and was now determined to remain in the Truth. I prayed every day, night and day to marry a JW. And I really seemed to do well, and then a JW brother came into my life. I thought this was the answer to my prayer. Although I didn’t feel as though I loved him as much as I loved others, I truly believed I would grow to love him more and more through Jehovah’s spirit. But guess what! AFter we were engaged the house he told me was his, wasn’t. His dad has 3/4 share in the house. The salary he told me he earned is at least R2000 less. (He is a teacher and so doesn’t earn much anyway). The rental income on his house that he pointedly told me was his, isn’t. And the Saturday mornings work he told me he had, he doesn’t have between November and March. So guess what, 1 month after being married I find out all these lies. And what makes it worse. I am a single mother, trying to make ends meet and here I am supporting a 2nd husband once again. He contributes only R1200.00 to the household expenses. (he cannot afford more – but prior to marriage he could afford R5000! and he had a so-called house) I pay the bond, levies, the extra garage for his car, the extra day for the maid. And I am left with the rest of his wedding share costs as he cant afford it. His explanation: He didn’t think, and he didn’t realise.
So, I went crying to the elders. Told them everything. They called him in and asked him: How do you feel about what you have done? What will you do to rectify situation? Oh, he feels bad, his conscience is troubling him and he will find better work. 2 months later, I am still supporting him and am still left with the wedding costs. I have been totally distraught because this is the 2nd husband in my life I have taking advantage of me. I cry alot and at meetings. I even phoned some colleges for him who was desperate for lecturers. He never bothered to follow up. He sleeps EVERY afternoon and still plays golf at least 3 times a month. Last month I had an elder phone me and tell me his heart really goes out to me but I have said “I do” in front of Jehovah. He said I must read 1 Cor 13 (I think) where it says Love is long suffering and he said that I haven’t suffered long enough. He said that God hates a divorcing. And I must just hang in there. But how do I?? I am battling to pay for my daughter, and I help pay my parents rent, and NOW I am just expected to take on a husband who lied his way into my marriage. But that seems ok to them. I even went so far as to speak to a Circuit Overseer, who told me: My sister, he must have loved you enough to decieve you!
Am I the only one that can see what is wrong here?? What about the fact that God hates liars, and deceit? What about 2 Tim 3:8 (Again I think, or it could be 5:8) where it says that “a man who doesn’t provide for his household is worse than one who is without truth. And yet I am now stuck with this man whom I thought I would grow to love, but now can’t. I am angry and resentful of him. How can I show him respect? His leadership qualities? I pay for 80% of all our expenses. Even when we go somewhere I pay for toll fees, petrol everything. After 3 months of marriage I am fed up, and spiritually low. I wan’t to leave him but if I do, I will get reproved. And as it won’t be a scriptural divorce (there is no adultery) I will not be free to marry again. So, in order to be free to marry again, I would have to go out and do fornication and get reproved and risk disfellowshipping just to get back into the “Truth” and to be free to remarry. But as for my husband. He gets off scott free. So like you, I don’t know what to believe anymore…
LOL, now that’s funny.
Brothrley Love? Some brothrs display a true brothrley love, while others are still caught up in there old mold and for what ever reason are unable, or perhaps un willing to show a true agopi love.
People are not always going to behave in ways that agree with us, and at times show no love at all.
On my last post I mentioned that I was at Genral Hospital in Los Angeles. In the meantime my family was living up in central California. My wife had gotten word that I was in the hospital and needed to get to L.A. a.s.a.p. as I was in grave condition. I learned at a later date that the brothers put her on a Grayhound Bus by herself in the middle of the night. I would of thought a brother would of offred to drive her down, but that was not to be.
Then after I was home for awhile, my three boys were sitting on the couch in the livingroom when one of the elders came over and in front of my boys began telling how the congration took up a collection so our house payment could be made, because your daddy wasn’t able to pay it and the brothers didn’t want to see us put out into the streets. If that were not bad enough, the brother turned and started walking to the front door. He then reached into his pocket while turning around and pulling out a penny from his pocket, placed it on the coffee table with the other money, saying, here I found another penny, I don’t want you to think I’m holding anything back.
While I was in the hospital my three boys were being cared for by my grand parents. An elder came to my grand parents house to talk to the boys to let them know that I was going in for emergency sugery and that I wasn’t exspect to pull through. The elder along with another brother took that oppertunity to hold a kangaroo court with my oldest son in the car. It appears that my son had placed a frog on the windshield of this brothers sisters car window.While attenting meetings I noticed my oldest son not making any comments. After about two months I was finally told what had happened and that he was put on a private re- proof.. This was all done at a time when my boys were to be told about their father possibly not surviving. ” Brotherly Love”
I imagine we can all find something to complain about within the J.W.
To tell you the truth, I’m somewhat perplexed as to what to believe any more. If we keep account of the injuries inflicted upon us by others, we could be very bitter, and then some. Guess it best to just say they don’t know what their doing and move forward.
I have a VERY SERIOUS QUESTION,
If the truth is the truth, then how can it be changed?
My point being, if the WBTS are the true and choosen ones to permote Jehovah’s word, how can what was taught yesterday as fact, not be fact a few years furhter on down the line?
In 1975, while laying in a hospital bed at Los Angeles General Hospital fighting for my life and refusing a blood transfusion. A district assembly was also taking place at Dodger Stadium. I had an elder come up to by bed side and asked if I was ready, I was thinking, ready for what!
Was I ready to die, what was he talking about, I lay wondering. At that time, I had doctors, nurses and others telling me that if I did’t get a blood transfusion, that I was in fact going to die, because I had bleed out. If you know anything about blood counts, mine was 15 and 3, where it should have been somewhere around 45 and 15, what ever all that means.
After spending some sixteen weeks in the hospital , I did survive and I reframed from taking blood.
It wasn’t for sometime that I learned just what the elder was talking about when he asked if I was ready. Unbeknownst to me, the WBTS was announcing that 1975 was going to be the year when Armageddon was to be ushered in.Well, here we are almost 2006.
Now Im learning that the WTBTS is teaching that it’s okay to take a blood transfusion.
After returning home from the hospital, the elders came and told me they wanted me to sign a sworn statement to the fact that I reframed from taking blood. When I inquired as to why, their reply was, ” because we don’t believe you”. My response was ” just because I sign something, then that makes my word okay!, this isn’t between me and you any way, it’s between me and my God, Jehovah”!
So it should be with each and every individual, I truly feel that good hearted people will be cared for, as long as their showing their heart condition in their dealings with their fellow man and adhering as closly as possible to the fundamental teaching set down by our heavenly father jehovah.
What is truth? Can anyone tell me or anyone else that their going to live forever, or whether or not what is proven fact today, won’t be so tommrow? Hell, no one knows for sure about the scriptures, it’s a guide line and measuring rod, nothing more, nothing less. There are things within it that make perfect sense and then there are things written that make no sense at all., So, what is truth? I know there is a moon and a sun and stars and an ocean, I also know if I don’t eat that I will die, and if I don’t brush my teeth I’ll have bad breath. I also know I don’t want to offend anyone, so I use an under arm deodorant.Can you deny that there is not some truth in what I said?
I can agree with you on the symbol and confussing images. Howerver what do you have to say regarding factual information about contacting the dead, and recieving information from the sprit realm ?
I’m sorry, but that can not be so easily sweept under the carpet, without serious examanation of the facts.
Perhaps by ignoring the issue, that then means it does not exsist.
I find this information very troubling, as it is someting I believed the Witnesses condemed outright.
I’m finding more and more contertictions in what the WBTS teaches and what they practice.
I left friends and family when I became a J.W.Some friends who could not understand how I could just throw them aside so easily. Now years later, I think about those I turned my back on, and wonder if I really did the right thing, after learning about some of the things which are being brought to kight about the WBTS.
there will be wolfes (JW) amongst you in sheeps covering.
Darn wolfs come in here and they are all named bill.
You can find all kinds of stupid symbols that look like something else, just like when people see mary of jesus on a piece of toast or cookie.
There’s only so many way to draw something.
somethings are going to look a like.
This article is garbage. If any of you draw a few pictures I could take it and find all kinds of symbols and then say you are pagan of a occult.
very well thoughtout trickery.
I see There must be two bill’s making comments.
I see why some people use Anonymous.
Because I’ve made comments before, but the 12/08/05 11:47pm Bill is not me.
I’m going to have to change my name.
Bill, there you go again and distort everything I said to suit your purposes, very typical of a JW.
Yes, I did say JW changed many many of their believes, my point being you changed them so much that that truth you teach today will be a lie tomorrow.
Please don’t bring Russell into the picture. Russell also celebrated Christmas do you do that today??? You know for a fact that if Russell was alive today and part of the Org he would be disfellowshipped for his beliefs.
When you say: “These Bible truths have never been changed. Thats been a long tomorrow, eh?” ——-Who are you trying to fool, yourself??? You must be very gullible if you believe that.
You said: “You said back on one of these pages, [if it wasn’t circular filed], that after you became a JW, you didn’t believe the Bible anymore”——-There you go again distorting the truth! Please go back and read exactly what I said.
As for what you think, think this: If you are a JW you are brain washed by the mighty WT!
If you are a JW your mind is being controlled. Mind-control is most effective when people think they are exercising free will, but if the person is programmed to act as a self-regulator, then the control is really successful. Most Witnesses will argue that they exercise free choice, but if I offer you a choice from a selection, strictly limited by me, is that really a choice? Picture yourself in an airplane and at meal time the steward will come and ask you “Chicken or beef?” Is that really a choice? NO, it is an illusion of free choice and it is effective because you are led to believe that your can choose. Witnesses have their choices very limited in many areas, but still they think they have a choice when in fact choices are made for them. Armies control people. Basic training reprograms the soldier’s mind to do the will of the Army under special conditions, but in civilian life, the recruit is allowed freedom of expression and choice (JW do not outside the Kingdom Hall have free choice). Children are controlled by parents (or they used to be!), but this is temporary and the child breaks free in adolescence to stand alone, and parents are happy to see their children grow to maturity and become INDEPENDENT of their necessary control. Unfortunately witnesses will never have this freedom; choices are always made for them, but most of them never realize this. Let us suppose that your mind is controlled. Would you know it? How could you? Surely the whole point of mind-control is that the person being controlled is UNaware of it. Does a puppet know he is being controlled? NO! Still he moves happily. You are taught that Satan the Devil is the ruler of this world and everything, everyone on this planet, except Jehovah’s Witnesses, is under his control. The Witnesses attend meetings three times each week plus perhaps, 20 minutes before and after each gathering. During that time, the ideas and language of Jehovah’s Witnesses are continually reiterated. Witnesses rely upon the Writing Committee of the “faithful slave” to research for them. This is encouraged by the leadership. Regarding personal study, The Watchtower said, “do some spiritual digging in order to begin getting the very knowledge of Jehovah’s heavenly organization” (w15/6 98) where is this “digging” to be done? In the Bible? NO. But the Watchtower Index.
If you ever want to memorize something, sing it. It is a very effective way to learn and remember written material. One note or phrase can help you recall a whole song that you have not sung for years. (”Baa, baa, black sheep, have you…..”) All of the 225 songs used in Witness meetings are written by Jehovah’s Witnesses to avoid the influence of so called “false religion” in the hymns of the Christian church (this does not prevent Witness writers “borrowing” musical phrases and themes). Each week at Witness meetings, six songs in total are sung and Witnesses are “encouraged” to sing these as part of their worship and to listen to the “up-building” music of Kingdom Melodies at other times. When listening to these tapes, the words of the songs inevitably come to mind. Music is a very powerful influence as the Society itself is aware – it discourages listening to popular “worldly” music. Does the leadership control other information? Yes, most effectively. It never actually forbids the reading of any material, but “advises”, “encourages”, “reasons with”, the faithful Witness to avoid material which, as they say “is harmful to you. If, in research on the internet, you find facts at odds with what you have been taught, will you explain these away by saying that they are lies created to mislead you?
How do you view people who are not Witnesses? Do you believe they are immoral and dishonest? Do you disbelieve the stories about Jehovah’s Witnesses who have committed fraud, child abuse, rape and other crimes? Do you think that they were never “proper” Jehovah’s Witnesses? Do you try to convince yourself that they were “never really in the truth”? The facts show that some active and approved Witnesses are dishonest, yet you still have contact with them. Suppose that you dare to criticize something connected with “Jehovah’s organization” – what will happen? Won’t other Witnesses quickly withdraw from you because “you are discouraging”? “Read God’s Word the Holy Bible Daily”. Witnesses are encouraged to study the Bible, but they are told that they cannot understand it unless it is explained to them. And by whom? By the “faithful and discreet slave” composed of about 5, 000 spirit-anointed” men and women world-wide, but represented by only a dozen men in Brooklyn. If they are the faithful and discrete slave how come the instructions only come from the 12 or 13????
At the end of every assembly, a speaker from the national headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses usually gives an inspiring talk relating how “Jehovah has blessed his people in xyz country”- usually involving b numerical increases and experiences in various lands. These talks, and others on assembly programmers, are often punctuated by enthusiastic “spontaneous applause” from a claque, cued by expressions such as “Isn’t that something we are all very happy about Brothers?” (Applause) Have you been told that the New World Translation is the best of all Bible translations? Do you believe that only Jehovah’s Witnesses, as a special group of people, were chosen by God, to “preach the good news before the end comes”? Although the Bible warns Christians not to judge others since we are all sinners, Jehovah’s Witnesses do this all the time. It is reasoned that, although we cannot judge the inner man, we can know his “heart condition” (spirituality) by his words and actions – “out of the heart’s abundance the mouth speaks”. That is enough for Jehovah’s Witnesses. Those who do not attend all meetings are “weak” or uncommitted unless they have exceptional reasons. Even in the case of severe disability, every effort is made to attend meetings and assemblies – in wheelchairs or on beds and stretchers if necessary.
If a man works shifts, he will be encouraged to find other employment and if he wishes to gain a position as elder, he really must attend the Kingdom Hall regularly. Tales are told of Witnesses traversing crocodile-infested rivers or terrain frequented by dangerous animals to attend meetings, while The Watchtower encourages swapping of unpopular shifts with fellow-employees so that Witnesses do not miss meetings. And a woman “paid a fellow-worker to cover her shift so that she could be free to attend these important meetings” (w1/9 98) Are Jehovah’s Witnesses “brainwashed”? Yes, definitely.
Witness converts soon learn that they should answer “question and answer” meeting parts “in their own words”. This means that they should not read answers verbatim from the paragraphs of The Watchtower or study book being used. Instead they should rephrase their answers. This does not mean that they will answer in their own words because they will still conform to the well-understood jargon phrases of Jehovah’s Witnesses e.g. “Babylon the Great” which is the “world empire of false religion” instead of “all religion in this world which does not worship Jehovah through his organization and, according to the Society, has pagan origins from ancient Babylon If you stay in the organization,.
The longer you vacillate, the more difficult it is to leave. If you do not act soon, you will slip back into inertia and, before long, you will be passively swallowing all the spiritual junk “food” again, as fast as the “faithful steward” can serve it. The Watchtower claims to be the bridge between God and mankind but unfortunately the only bridge they have is Brooklyn Bridge.
As for it being the last response to me, don’t you worry you will come back under some anonymous name, again very typical of JW’s
fri,
Thanks for seeing the fact that JW’s don’t teach those
things no more.
You said, ‘the truth JW’s teach today will be tomorrow’s
lies’. The truth that only the Father is God Almighty,
that the soul is not immortal, that there is no eternal
physical ‘hellfire’ torment, etc., (thank goodness),
has been taught and preached and proven since Russell,
[late 19th century].
These Bible truths have never been changed.
Thats been a long tomorrow, eh?
About your belief in the Bible. You said back on one of these pages, [if it wasn't circular filed], that after
you became a JW, you didn’t believe the Bible anymore.
‘Anymore’ to me means up to the time you just read
this. And you pointed out to me your church is the
golfcourse. Did I get it wrong?
But, fri, you’re still just not helping me here.
Its obvious to me that you don’t care to answer me about who you believe is God.
I asked you before and you
asked if I’m with the IRS. {thanks for the complement
though}
So, when someone gives me an answer back like that, and avoids answering me, what should I think?
And when I asked you also, ‘if you think JW’s are
wrong, then tell me which religion has it right?’ I
recieved nothing back.
Maybe you don’t know. But, if that’s it, then I’ll
accept that. But, is an answer on this that offensive?
However, when someone asks someone else such
important questions like these, and receives such
response back, is that displaying love and concern?
It tells me these subjects are not important to you.
This is my last response to you,
I hope you really do love God and his word, and eventually
find the conviction to express that to yourself and others.
Peace.
To anonymous (bill) how dear you say “. If any of those teachings you point out, were really taught by the JW’s, there not any longer.” Sorry pal you can’t escape this one. When in doubt call the mother ship or the elders in your congregation for the veracity of my claims. But be careful, when you ask certain questions that are sensitive they might disfellowshipp you for causing divisions. Better yet, don’t ask them, find an old witness that still has the older books. You will be surprised to see the crap you find in their.
—-Now, to the real issue here: You correct, the WT has changed most if not all of its previous believes, too many if you ask me!
What they taught in 1890 was no longer taught in 1910. What they said was the truth in 1910 no longer was no longer truth in1920. What they told people in 1920 were no longer accepted in 1940. What they said in 1940 was stupid in 1950 and so on.
Anonymous (Bill) this is what the problem is; you have basically changed every single thing you once believed in. Looking back at WT history changes don’t just stop, so in fact the truth you are teaching today will be tomorrows lie. So, how can you go from door to door telling people you have the truth when tomorrow the truth you preached is no longer accepted as truth, a complete lie. How can you sleep at night?
If it is another religion doing these changes, it does not matter much as they do not judge people for not being able to keep with certain changes. Example, in the 1960,s the watchtower came out and said “organ transplants were cannibalism” so the witnesses who went against the WT and had the transplants were promptly disfellowshipped as a result loosing friends of a life time and their families as well, you well know a good witness including family member would no longer talk to such a person. Today, if you take a transplant is readily accept. You will not be disfellowshipped for that.
Since the policy has changed, had the WT searched for the ones that were kicked out relating to this matter, apologized to them and said: “you are reinstated”? Tell me does the WT need to play God and mess up people’s lives?
Jesus lived by 2 things his entire life, LOVE & FORGIVNESS! Said to say wit’s cant show either.
You quoueted: “thats a shame because you must except Jesus to have salvation” —-Does this mean I don’t have to be a JW or believe in the watchtower to be saved? This is very good news in fact!
You also quoted: “So, we know you don’t believe the Bible is Gods word” —-Can you show me where in my posts I said I don’t believe the bible is the word of God?
fri,
You just made the point. If any of those teachings you
point out, were really taught by the JW’s, there not any
longer.
Why not?
Because they were questioned, examined and eliminated.
Yes, some changes were made, but for the better.
You desire to ’see’ JW’s in the past, but this is now. You desire to ’set a record of past things’ about the JW”s,
but the real ‘record’, is that they have dropped those
claimed teachings long ago. Do you see any of those
teachings taught by them today?
So, we know you don’t believe the Bible is Gods word, and thats a shame because you must except
Jesus to have salvation. I know the other Bible
religions would agree on that point.
Pray to God to give you answers, read his word.
Peace.
(Most any church historian will tell you that the Catholic
church, for one, has far and away more additions and changes than JW’s. That newspaper your reading is very suspect.)
Anonymous, I must admit that all religions have changed things. However non-has changed as many things as the WT.
The problem here is when you claim to be the only true religion, the only one on earth backed by God and you have so many flip-flops. Where are you getting the information from?? Of course you will say from the faithful and discreet slave (the remnant of earth) but, are you really getting the information from them? Or are you in fact getting the information from the 12 that run WT?
Because you change so many things, the truth you teach today will be tomorrow’s lie.
In 1927 creation book stated that Jehovah lives in Pleiades star cluster galaxy..(creation 1927, p.94.—–Star Trek anyone?
In 1927 Shows picture of Christ on a cross. (creation 1927 p.267)
1929 Picture of Christ carrying a cross. (life 1929 p.198)
1967 Organ transplant equal to cannibalism (watchtower Nov.15 p.702-704)
1943 Space shuttle is impossible (The truth shall make you free p.285). Truth shall make you free, what a joke this one was. Ha ha ha ha
1960 it is ok to lie for God (Watchtower May 15 p295)
1938 delay marriage and children till after Armageddon (face the facts p.46-50)
The crap is just hard to believe but guess what WT wrote is all.
fri,
You wrote before that you were a Catholic before a Jw.
That while a Catholic you believed the Bible, but after
becoming a JW, you no longer believed the Bible.
That says to me that you were professing to other JW’s
that you believed the Bible, but didn’t.
I surmise you did this while an elder. Or not?
So, anyway, you said before that you blame JW’s for you not
believing the Bible anymore.
Yet you say the JW’s are all wrong in what they teach.
Yet you said before, you don’t now belong to any religion,
that your church is the golf course.
Tell me what your actions and words mean in regard
to your real feelings about devotion to worshipping
God please?
So directly me then, to the perfect religion, that has
never changed or edited its beliefs?
THE MOST IMPORTANT BIBLE TEACHING IS THAT THE
ALMIGHTY IS ONE, AND TOLD US HIS NAME, JEHOVAH.
This most important teaching was and will always be the
number one Bible teaching among JW’s. From the very
beginning, Russell and others recognized this teaching,
as well as unbiblical teachings of immortal soul, eternal
hellfire torment,etc.
The last 5 years I have spent in-depth research in the
4 theological libraries of Bible universities located in my
city. I have done this to see if JW’s are truthfully teaching
right doctrine. I’ve gone as deep as you can go. I wish you
all had such libraries near by to check these things. Read
early church history, the first 5 centuries especially, to see
the foretold apostasy unfolding. Understanding how and
when the apostate teachings like the Trinity, immortal
soul, etc. came to be, proves the Bible true. Check it out.
Hi PC. I have read as to what you wrote about the “light gets brighter”, now the Holy Spirit as our helper is letting us know that this is not the case. The Holy Spirit from Jehovah is letting us know that if the Holy Sprit has taught us something through man, then that information should not be changed at any time. The brothers at one time celebrated christmas. Then word through the Holy Spirit told us men that it is was originally a pagen custom before Christ was even born on this earth, that we to stop it and it is Jehovah to whom we should worship. Since then no one in the orginization has celebrated it. You see, PC, if we were to walk in a room under a very dim light, we still can see where everything is as if the whole room was filled with lights.Brothers as high as the Governing Body or the “faithful and descreet slave”throughout the years have made grave errors and mistakes, that they cannot see that “false prophets” or “the evil slave” can (and have) infultrated the WHOLE orginazition. Matt 24:45-51 and Matt 7:15. And it is these “false prophets” that gives preditions that eventually do not come true. 1975 is one example.1975 has been written in the books and mags written at the time, which what was said did not come true and ruined lives.As 1Thess 5:21 says to “make sure of ALL things and to hold fast to what is FINE”. It was not a fine thing that 1975 and other preditions that was brought apon Gods people.Another term used is “sifting” the truth through the years. But the illistration used as in sifting lumps out of flour for bread, the wrong flour was used in the first place as it had lumps in it.The Holy Sprit is telling us to be careful as to what we learn about Jehovah, as some of what we learn does come from the “false prophets” within the orginization.Remember, our lives are at stake. May you help others to a better understanding. From your loving brother, Keith.
I was raised a third generation JW and you know what? The buck stops here!
It never cesses to amaze me how, when shown the blatent occult teachings that FOUNDED the J.W movement, a “faithful” witness will readily overlook it claiming that the ‘light” of ‘truth’ get’s brighter. Don’t you realize that truth, real truth does not change? Why did God suppossedly chose the eirly Bible Students in the first place? Whas it because they were teaching the “truth” about the Bible? If that were so? What were they teaching and why don’t we teach it today? Yestardays “truth” you say? Please.
The sad part is that the entire foundation of the WBTS hinges on the 1914 date derived from measurments taken from the Great Pyramid of Egypt, and failed calculations of misunderstood dates and events. Rutherford my have bought some time, but the time is comming when the “light” will have to shine on that failed “food” that has been put on “Jehovah’s” table for consumption for nearly 100 years! To me that food has become rotten. I wonder if they will make any better sense this time on explaining why it is not so than the failed “Generation” explenation, you know the one, which was “Jesus’ promis” according the the Watchtower and which we preached from door to door for nearly 80 years!
PC, “. It’s a light that keeps getting brighter” Sorry to disappoint you but the lights were cut off a long time ago, if ever connected.
When it comes to the brotherly love you so much talk about, what brotherly love would that be? Would you care to explain? Let me tell you about brotherly love within the JW. My wife and I left the JW 4 years ago, we left because of a case of abuse that was covered up by the elders, I was part in the judicial committee and did not agree with the outcome (abuser confessed once more, only to be silent reproved and free to do it again as no one but the elders would know about it) You can find more about it on my previous posts. We have a son 3 years old and the grandmother (a Jehovah’s witness) has chosen not to see him in 2 years. The reason for this might I ask, simple because we no longer wanted to be part of a religion that protects abusers. My wife and I were never disfellowshipped nor reproved, I left because my conscious would not allow me to stay. Unfortunately there are hundreds even thousands of cases like this one, where mothers wont talk to daughter, fathers to sons and grandmothers to their grand children just because they no longer want to be part of such a nonsense. Ok, I understand if mother in law does not want to talk to her daughter or me, but tell me what sin or crime did my son committee for not being able to know her grandmother? Personally we don’t care if we don’t see grandmother again. However, I cannot see my son being punished just because a stupid religion (to my opinion cult) wont allow it.
Jesus based his life and ministry on 2 things: LOVE & FORGIVNESS, unfortunately jw cannot show either.
How there you come here and talk about brotherly love when JW treat their friends and loved ones worst than animals. People like you give humans a bad name
Much of the comments above are from the early writtings and teaching of the Bible Students. As Jehovah shed light on many of the teachings, they changed to coincide with the true meaning in the Bible. It’s a light that keeps getting brighter. Jehovah reveals things to his people in his appointed time, when we are ready to receive the understanding.
One thing I always keep in mind, after examinig many, many religions, only one, Jehovah’s Witnesses, shows the same consistant brotherly love through out the world. They don’t take up arms against one another (or others). The are involved in preaching this good news through the entire earth.